Join our zoo community

ZooChat Cup Group C: Columbus vs Singapore

Discussion in 'ZooChat Cup' started by CGSwans, 22 Oct 2019.

?

Columbus vs Singapore: Birds

Poll closed 24 Oct 2019.
  1. Columbus 3-0 Singapore

    50.0%
  2. Columbus 2-1 Singapore

    44.1%
  3. Singapore 2-1 Columbus

    5.9%
  4. Singapore 3-0 Columbus

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    12 Feb 2009
    Posts:
    3,292
    Location:
    Melbourne
    The topic? Birds. Remember, Singapore Zoo, River Safari and Night Safari all count but, alas, Jurong doesn’t. I suspect that’ll matter quite a bit.
     
  2. Ebirah766

    Ebirah766 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    21 Sep 2016
    Posts:
    2,230
    Location:
    The Valley of the Wind
    I'll comment here so I can see the arguments for both sides.
     
  3. Vision

    Vision Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    29 Aug 2015
    Posts:
    1,091
    Location:
    Antwerp, Belgium
    Singapore is very unlucky to have gotten this category, as it's easily their weakest point! As far as I know, the only birds present during my 2016 visit were:

    Singapore Zoo:
    - Oriental pied hornbills in the proboscis monkey enclosure;
    - Golden pheasants in the Treetops Trail exhibit;
    - American (?) flamingos between the gibbon and spider monkey islands;
    - Southern cassowaries and Emus in the Australian area;
    - Ostriches in the African area;
    - African penguins and Hybrid pelicans in the Splash Safari;
    - Great cormorants, Scarlet (?) macaws and Greater sulphur-crested cockatoos in the Rainforest Fights Back show;
    - Argus pheasants, Spotted whistling-ducks, Western crowned pigeons, Nicobar pigeons, Zebra doves, Blue-crowned hanging parrots, Eclectus parrots in the Fragile Forest.

    Since my visit it would appear that Malayan peacock-pheasants, Pied imperial pigeons, Pinon imperial pigeons, Toco toucans and Red lorikeets have been added to the Fragile Forest aviary.

    Singapore River Safari:
    - Lesser adjutants and Milky storks in the stork aviary;
    - Golden pheasants in the panda house;
    - Painted storks and Milky storks living semi-wild on the zoo grounds;
    - Great white pelican in the Animal Encounters show;
    - American flamingo and Scarlet ibis in the Amazon River Quest.

    Since my visit Jandaya parakeets, Sclater's crowned pigeons, Pink-necked green pigeons, Great vasa parrot, Purple-crested turaco and Violet turaco have been added to the River Gems exhibit, and Golden pheasant has disappeared from the collection.

    Singapore Night Safari:
    - Spotted whistling-ducks, Black-headed ibis, Great white pelican, Greater (?) flamingo in the Fishing Cat Trail;
    - Eurasian eagle-owl, Masked lapwings and Spotted whistling-ducks in the Leopard Trail;
    - Tawny frogmouth in the Australian area.

    Since my visit it seems the Tawny frogmouth has been replaced by a Barn owl, and that Spotted wood owl and Sunda scops owl are new to the collection.

    Some Singapore regulars will have to correct all this information for me, though! This list currently has some 40 species, which is honestly more than I expected but still nothing to write home about, with not really that many rarities and not really any standout bird exhibit. I don't know a whole lot about Columbus so I'll wait a bit before deciding what to vote for!

    Something entirely different to keep in mind are the WRS conservation programs: within Singapore they monitor and research the exotic Yellow-crested cockatoo population, and actively work and install nest boxes for Oriental pied hornbills. Further abroad they have done intensive work with the reintroduction of Black-winged mynas.
     
    Last edited: 22 Oct 2019
    twilighter and Brum like this.
  4. BigNate

    BigNate Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    27 Mar 2018
    Posts:
    430
    Location:
    Hopefully a Zoo
    Why don’t you just press “Watch Thread”?
     
  5. Ebirah766

    Ebirah766 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    21 Sep 2016
    Posts:
    2,230
    Location:
    The Valley of the Wind
    Good point.
     
  6. birdsandbats

    birdsandbats Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    17 Sep 2017
    Posts:
    11,460
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Columbus does great in this category! It may not have a dedicated bird house, but large aviaries are scattered throughout the zoo's grounds. Here is a species list:

    Migratory Bird Free-flight aviary: Wood Thrush, White-crowned Sparrow, Northern Bobwhite, Red-winged Blackbird, Tufted Titmouse, Gray Catbird, American Robin, American Goldfinch, Baltimore Oriole, Cedar Waxwing, Rose-breasted Grosbeak, Eastern Towhee, Swainson's Thrush, White-faced Ibis, American Golden-Plover, Sora, Scarlet Tanger, Mourning Dove, Killdeer, Indigo Bunting, Dark-eyed Junco, Blue-winged Teal, Eastern Bluebird, Ruddy Duck, White-throated Sparrow, Orchard Oriole, Gray-cheeked Thrush, Brown-headed Cowbird

    Asia Quest Walk-through Aviary: Javan Pond-Heron, Reeves' Pheasant, Cabot's Tragopan, Azure-winged Magpie, Northern Shoveler, Nicobar Pigeon, Magpie Goose, Western Cattle Egret, Black-throated Laughingthrush

    Congo Expedition walk-through: Hottentot Teal, Black Swan, Black Crake, White-crowned Robin-Chat, Hadada Ibis, Superb Starling, Speckled Pigeon, Violet-backed Starling, Black-crowned Crane, Common Bulbul, Sacred Ibis, Hamerkop, Blue-bellied Roller, White-headed Buffalo Weaver, Tambourine Dove, Buff-crested Bustard, Green Wood-Hoopoe

    Lorikeet Garden free-flight: "Rainbow Lorikeet"

    Roadhouse Free-flight Room: Magpie Goose, Crested Wood-Partridge, Pied Imperial Pigeon, Victoria Crowned-Pigeon, Eastern Rosella, Bali Myna, Goldie's Lorikeet, Black-naped Fruit Dove, White-throated Ground-Dove, Chestnut Teal, Spotted Whistling-Duck, Frackled Duck, Masked Lapwing, Western Hooded Pitta, Red-billed Leiothrix, Mariana Fruit-Dove, Straw-necked Ibis, Metallic Starling, Golden Pheasant, Grosbeak Starling, Luzon Bleeding-Heart, Village Weaver

    Manatee Coast free-flight: Hooded Merganser, Northern Pintail, Bufflehead, Wood Duck, Brown Pelican, Ruddy Duck

    Birds that aren't in free-flight aviaries:
    Southern Ground Hornbill
    Red-and-yellow Macaw
    Green-winged Macaw
    Domestic Pigeon
    unidentified corella
    Gray-crowned Crane
    Emu
    American Crow
    Trumpeter Swan
    Sandhill Crane
    Bald Eagle
    Domestic Chicken
    Common Ostrich
    Helmeted Guineafowl
    Red-crowned Crane
    Blue-faced Honeyeater
    American Flamingo
    Hawaiian Goose
    Humboldt Penguin
    African Gray Parrot
    Ross' Turaco
    Black Swan
    Dalmatian Pelican
    Painted Stork
    Tawny Frogmouth
    North Island Brown Kiwi
    Sulphur-crested Cockatoo
    White-crested Laughingthrush

    I rest my case.
     
    twilighter, nczoofan and Brum like this.
  7. snowleopard

    snowleopard Well-Known Member 15+ year member Premium Member

    Joined:
    1 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    7,684
    Location:
    Abbotsford, B.C., Canada
    I have not been to Singapore, and I was at Columbus Zoo way back in 2008, but thanks to the great work of both @Vision and @birdsandbats it appears that Columbus is the much stronger establishment in this category. The walk-through aviaries in that Ohio zoo are excellent, especially the superb Migratory Bird aviary with North American species.

    My vote is 3-0 Columbus Zoo
     
  8. Ebirah766

    Ebirah766 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    21 Sep 2016
    Posts:
    2,230
    Location:
    The Valley of the Wind
    I'm going with 2-1 Columbus.
     
  9. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    27 Oct 2008
    Posts:
    5,509
    Location:
    Europe
    Singapore really doesn't have much to show for, a small collection in fine but unspectacular aviaries. There are a few rarities from a European perspective, but this is easily Singapore's weakest spot. Columbus seems to have large walkthrough aviaries, even one with a large number of native species, which for me is a winning combination. 3-0 for Columbus for me.
     
    nczoofan likes this.
  10. Mr. Zootycoon

    Mr. Zootycoon Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    3 Jun 2015
    Posts:
    1,199
    Location:
    probably in a zoo
    Are these birds all in the same aviary? Do they breed succesfully?
     
  11. birdsandbats

    birdsandbats Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    17 Sep 2017
    Posts:
    11,460
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Yes, they are all in the same aviary. I have no idea if they breed successfully or not
     
  12. Ebirah766

    Ebirah766 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    21 Sep 2016
    Posts:
    2,230
    Location:
    The Valley of the Wind
    I'm actually changing my vote to 3-0 Columbus.
     
  13. TheGerenuk

    TheGerenuk Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    8 Sep 2017
    Posts:
    2,874
    Location:
    Brampton, Ontario, Canada
    I feel really bad for Singapore getting the worst possible category for itself.

    I have visited Columbus twice and I'd say birds are indeed a real strength.

    3-0 Columbus for now, may change to 2-1 with a few convincing arguments.
     
  14. NSU42

    NSU42 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    19 Sep 2015
    Posts:
    249
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    I'm sitting here as well. Haven't visited either zoo, but from what is said here so far it sounds like Columbus wins for both enclosures and species list, which gives them my first 2 points. I then normally debate whether the other zoo, in this case Signapore, deserves a vote for having a strong collection or exhibits or what they do behind the scenes compared to the other zoo. Normally needs to do comparatively well in 2 of the 3 for me. Here it doesn't sound like Singapore measures up to much, so I'm going 3-0 Columbus for now.
     
    TheGerenuk likes this.
  15. Gondwana

    Gondwana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    17 Sep 2019
    Posts:
    255
    Location:
    USA
    I was at Columbus earlier this year. Can confirm that at least some of the birds breed in the North American aviary. I saw nests or chicks for the ducks, Bobwhite quail, and Baltimore orioles. I'd imagine that a lot of the other passerines are continually replenished as rehab birds and there's a bit of a changing cast of species. I know that when I visited Columbus a decade ago they had several warbler species, none of which are currently present.
     
  16. sooty mangabey

    sooty mangabey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    29 Apr 2008
    Posts:
    1,939
    Location:
    Sussex by the Sea
    I wasn’t a huge fan of Columbus on the whole, but that North American (“Migratory Bird”) aviary is one of my all-time favourite zoo exhibits: very simple, but very nicely done, with an array of wonderful species to see.
     
    birdsandbats likes this.
  17. Mr. Zootycoon

    Mr. Zootycoon Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    3 Jun 2015
    Posts:
    1,199
    Location:
    probably in a zoo
    I've struggled to write a response in this thread. I know that I have never seen the Migratory Bird Aviary (or anything else in Columbus Zoo) in person, but it just doesn't feel right for some reason.

    Naturally, I have some welfare concerns with this combination. This aviary has 28 different species, all of which have different needs and preferences. How do they optimise the enclosure for them all? From pictures it doesn't look that large (although I have a difficult time estimating the size of this exhibit). @Gondwana said that the small passerines may be rehab birds that are "continously replenished." If this is true, then the turnover rate may be very high, which is exactly my fear for things like the titmice, towhees and juncos. In that case this enclosure may be not so great after all.

    However, I could very well be wrong on all of it and then I would punish this zoo unjustly. For example: Burgers' Bush (an exhibit I adore) in it's very essence is also a huge mixed-species bird (and reptile) exhibit. Because of thoughtfull stocking, lots of observation and, of course, having a hectare of space with all kinds of micro-habitats makes it possibe for them to do so very succesfully. Columbus could very well have the same thing going one, but I simply do not know currently. Nevertheless, I do want to encourage some thought on how good this aviary is for its inhabitants.

    Husbandry concerns aside, I also want to add this quote from the Europe vs USA thread, just to add some food for thought:

     
    Last edited: 23 Oct 2019
  18. birdsandbats

    birdsandbats Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    17 Sep 2017
    Posts:
    11,460
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    The migratory bird aviary is very large. I don't have any size figures, though.
     
    Mr. Zootycoon likes this.
  19. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    23 Feb 2019
    Posts:
    4,162
    Location:
    London
    I appreciate migratory birds due to their regular absence from even the best zoos. However I think they should certainly have enough space to fulfill their needs (not necessarily their wild habits).
    I don't know whether this space is provided in Columbus, but I do know that I'd much rather see more common birds in a suitable exhibit than rarer birds in a poor one. I do not doubt that Columbus's exhibit is suitable (though probably could, as always, be larger...) given the standard maintained throughout the rest of the zoo but you never do know; from my (admittedly limited) experience of zoos and even less so North American zoos, especially compared to others on this site, the standard across the zoo can vary dramatically... (thinking of Leipzig, Toronto, etc...)


    On a lighter note, I bet Singapore is wishing Jurong was supporting it now...
    Then the tables would be completely turned, and theoretically I would be stuck between 2-1 and 3-0 Singapore.... :)
     
  20. Vision

    Vision Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    29 Aug 2015
    Posts:
    1,091
    Location:
    Antwerp, Belgium
    Something that I have been thinking about, but have been uncertain to comment about is actually a question about the limits of what Singapore Zoo includes. It currently includes all three zoos because of their very close proximity and the ease of visiting all three within a (long and exhausting) day. Will this situation be the same in a few year's time, when there are three other large zoos next to the current three? I don't think it will be possible to visit all of those within a day anymore, so perhaps for that reason they shouldn't count as belonging to the same zoo? But then again, other 'normal' zoos within this competition stretch the possibility of being visited within one day already.

    I guess this all is a bit of a weird introduction for the following point: Singapore Zoo might not have many birds in its current definition, but after the new bird park is being built (and future plans are, I believe, within what is allowed to be considered in this competition) the Singapore Zoo collective will most likely have one of the largest bird parks worldwide, with probably one of the largest avian collections...

    I suppose I just wanted to bring up the future plans for the bird park that is currently being constructed, and wanted to make sure that at least somebody mentioned it - Not to spark controversy, but perhaps to expand upon this conversation and to raise an interesting point that not everyone might have thought of?
     
    amur leopard likes this.