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ZooChat Cup Group C: Singapore vs Rotterdam

Discussion in 'ZooChat Cup' started by CGSwans, 17 Aug 2019.

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Ectotherms: Rotterdam vs Singapore

Poll closed 19 Aug 2019.
  1. Rotterdam 3-0 Singapore

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Rotterdam 2-1 Singapore

    59.3%
  3. Singapore 2-1 Rotterdam

    40.7%
  4. Singapore 3-0 Rotterdam

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Asia’s standard-bearer makes their ZC Cup debut. The opponent? Rotterdam. The topic? Ectotherms. This topic, of course, encompasses everything that isn’t a bird or a mammal. Remember that for Cup purposes Singapore Zoo, River Safari and Night Safari count as a single institution.

    The rules:
    • You have three votes to award. If you think it's a tight match, award 2 votes to the stronger zoo and 1 to the weaker one. But if you think it's a wider margin than that, award all 3 votes to the winner.
    • Your criteria for how you make your decision is entirely up to you, *except* that you must stay only within the given category. That includes ignoring the results of the other match: no strategic voting.
    • All votes are public, and all votes can be changed. The purpose of the game is to provoke debate, so make your case for why people should vote the same way as you do. Be open to reconsidering your vote
    Pinging @vogelcommando , @ShonenJake13 , @Zooish , @Chlidonias , @devilfish and @Vision
     
  2. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Well if the aquarium counts...

    ~Thylo
     
  3. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    The one in Rotterdam Zoo? It’s an integral part of the zoo. It counts.
     
  4. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    Ooh this is a good one I think. I'll need someone to lay out Rotterdam's field though.

    For Singapore Zoo there is a species list here: Singapore Zoo species list 2018 [Singapore Zoo] (note especially the lists for Reptopia in post #3, and Fragile Forest in post #12, and the Reptile Garden in post #14).

    For the River Safari I'm not sure there's a species list here, but I'll see what I can find.

    For the Night Safari there are pangolins which have scales so surely they must count?
     
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  5. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I meant River Safari. I actually don't know much about either zoo-- hence why I've not voted yet-- so didn't realize Rotterdam even had an aquarium. Surely River Safari, being a whole institution really, outweighs Rotterdam's? I'll await other peoples' thoughts.

    ~Thylo
     
  6. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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  7. TheGerenuk

    TheGerenuk Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Voted 2-1 Rotterdam for now. I'll wait and see what is said before making a final decision.
     
  8. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    This is a very tough round as this plays into the strength of both zoos. If Rotterdam would still have had the Riviera hall (old reptile house), it would have been an easier choice, but alas it hasn't.

    Reptiles & amphibians
    Singapore Zoo might be one of the best zoos in the world for reptiles, maybe not in absolute numbers, but especially when it comes to turtles and tortoises there is great diversity. Exhibitwise there is not much to complain either with the vast majority kept in spacious and nicely designed terraria or open enclosures. Night Safari has even more Gharials, but not much else in terms of ectotherms than a few petshop species. River Safari has several more reptiles dotted throughout the zoo (another Gharial), but here they are mostly in small terraria.

    Rotterdam has seen a vast reduction of their once enormous reptile collection, but is now more limited. There is still a very nice complex for African crocodiles (Slender-snouted & nile) and in the Oceanium, as well as on several other locations in the park good reptile and some amphibian displays also exist. New is the nature conservation center where several (locally) endangered species are kept and bred. But in sheer number they are drowned by Singapore. So final score for this part 2-1 for Singapore

    Fish
    Both Singapore Zoo and Night Safari have hardly any fish species, so it has to come from River Safari here. Allthough freshwater fish form an important component of this zoo, there is not actually that much diversity and a lot of attention is given to huge fish species. Most impressive are the Mekong giant catfish and Mekong sting-tailed ray. Apart from that it is mainly Alligator gars, Catfish, Arapaima, Arowana and other larger species. Tanks are large, but in total volume eclipsed easily by Rotterdam.

    Rotterdam has one of the top aquariums within a zoo. Although the original journey from North Sea to California is not there anymore, in terms of fish there is a lot to love still. There are several large North Sea tanks with a large variety, as well as smaller tanks for smaller species. Then there are a few mediterranean tanks, but the highlight is undoubtedly the Atlantic tunnel, which holds 3 million liters and has a large variety of sharks, as well as large and small fish. Then there are several coral reef tanks, a Mangrove themed tank with a large breeding group of cow-nosed ray as well as other large fish species (some of which very rare in Europe). The Oceanium also has some freshwater species from Central America, as well a new breeding station for small endangered freshwater fish, including some Malagasy species. To finalize there is a large Kelp tank and some smaller tanks with fish from that area. In addition to the Oceanium there are a few fish scattered throughout the zoo grounds, Tiger fish in with the crocodiles, and 2 aquariums in the Asian section, as well as a large pond in the butterfly house with Arapaima and other big S-American fish.

    Overall score for fish 2-1 for Rotterdam

    Invertebrates
    Both zoos have a butterfly house, but the one in Blijdorp is far larger and more attractive. Apart from butterflies invertebrate numbers are somewhat limited in both zoos, with random exhibits located here and there. But Blijdorp has a large coral reef tank as well and more invertebrates in general in the Oceanium (e.g. in the North Sea and Kelp forest tanks), so that is a more easy win for Blijdorp 2-1.

    Overall I think Blijdorp edges out on Singapore, despite the fantastic reptile collection and displays in the Zoo. The River Safari just cannot compete with the Oceanium for fish and for invertebrates I would also prefer Rotterdam. So all in all 2-1 for Rotterdam.
     
  9. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    So is it sort of like the SEA Aquarium would need to be added to the Singapore side to become equivalent to Rotterdam?
     
  10. Brum

    Brum Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Thanks to this compelling argument I'm going 2-1 Rotterdam as well.
     
  11. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    I want to vote for Singapore 2-1 because it's one of the few contestants I've seen in person and I think the ectotherm collection is great and really well exhibited, but I haven't been to Rotterdam and lintworm makes a good case for the opposite vote...
     
  12. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    I suppose one could ask, does Rotterdam have wild monitors and pythons on the grounds? :p
     
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  13. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Was going to type out a long reason as to why Rotterdam narrowly edges a victory on this one / but @lintworm has done it for me :) and since I agree with all of his points, it’s a 2-1 to Rotterdam from me!
     
  14. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Chinese giant salamanders are a rather large amphibian to overlook here. :)
     
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  15. Zooish

    Zooish Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I can't really vote because I've not been to Rotterdam before. Based on lintworm's explanation though, Singapore does lose out on marine species; the only marine habitat is a tiny touchpool at River Safari with less than 10 species. Singapore's reptile collection is quite good, especially chelonians, but the amphibian collection could definitely be beefed up.
     
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  16. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Singapore's chelonion collection is indeed very good and deserves a separate highlight, I do not think I have seen a better collection in a zoo. That was probably the biggest positive surprise when I visited, as I did not think of Singapore as a turtle-loving place.
     
  17. vogelcommando

    vogelcommando Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Visited Rotterdam today but have never been to Singapore. I have to trust on @lintworm about Singpores collections and in that case I will also vote for Rotterdam.
    Fish and invertebrates are already explained by @lintworm but with the Reptilians I will add that Rotterdam still has a diverse collection ( althrough not a fraction of - say - 25 years ago ! Esp. in the new Conservation Center some real rare species are on display now ( Antilean green iguana, Ploughshare tortoise ( which is by the way also kept at Singapore ).
    So my score is 2-1 for Rotterdam.
     
  18. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    I combined these thoughts, and I just really like the collection and how it is displayed at the Singapore facilities; so I'm going 2-1 for Singapore.
     
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  19. Vision

    Vision Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    I feel like in general, a trend I'm seeing in Blijdorp (Rotterdam) is that the collection and the way they're exhibited is going downhill (the Oceanium losing its tight geographic focus, the Rivierahal turning into an indoor playground area), whereas Singapore is constantly improving. Blijdorp's aquarium and butterfly hall are great, but in my opinion they're not great enough to compete with what must surely be one of the world's best reptile houses.

    Having been to both of these collections quite a few times, I'm going to vote 2-1 in favour of Singapore as well, for now. I do generally agree with @lintworm's comments, but I feel like the reptile collection, and definitely the way they're exhibited at Singapore just about clutches it for me.
     
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  20. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I have just looked at zootierliste and the reptile collection at Blijdorp is improving again, with species that have been kept behind the scenes for some years like the Plough-shared tortoises visible again and species like Antillean iguana joining the collection. Zootierliste actually lists 59 reptile species, of which I am sure several won't be kept anymore, but there are still at least 40 species of reptile, plus now an increasing number of amphibians again such as Lake Patzcuaro salamander and Lake Titicaca frogs having joined the collection recently. The collection is slowly increasing again, but I agree that the overall trend in exhibitry is somewhat downhill, but still a high level.

    I think that overall Blijdorp still edges out, the aquariums are superior to the ones in Singapore, as is the invertebrate collection and I do not think the gap is as wide for reptiles and amphibians as you say. The chelonian collection + the fantastic reptile house can for me not compensate the clear advantages Blijdorp has.
     
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