Bar headed goose I accept, was a mistake, Cape Barren goose I accept, was a mistake, Hawaiian goose - well its a US state so I dunno if that counts, the next two depend on if Mexico is counted but I thaimk spectacled owl should be counted anyway because it lives in Mexican deserts (Palearctic as opposed to Neotropical), the next two are found in Southern Florida, White headed duck is found in Spain and the other two are clearly in Europe and North America respectively, so is that just a mistake?
The duck was a mistake. The pintail and the spindalis are occasional vagrants to Florida, but not don't really live there.
The pintail has part of its range in Florida, it isn't just a vagrant, but the spindalis is pretty rare, true.
Slippery slope - if you count it for that reason, then you'd have to count Guam Kingfisher and other such species as North American, and Striated Caracara and certain penguin taxa as European
Well. Hawaii is actually a state as opposed to a territory in the other two cases so one could argue it is different. However, it serves no purpose to debate these topics - we just need @CGSwans to confirm/settle the debate on territories.
I didn't even see that before! But Mexico isn't part of Central America. I left Mexican species out of my original post just in case but ecologically Mexico is mostly more in line with the Southwest United States than with Central America. If no one knows how they got there then they can't be known as a definite native population Regardless, I'm fine with counting them in a similar vane to counting Dingos for Australia or elephants for Borneo. I meant the entire European captive population of Arctic Wolves are wolf-dog hybrids, therefore I don't know if they should count, especially as most are more dog than wolf at this point. Anas bahamensis is not native to Florida according to HBW. Hawaii has always been firmly treated as Oceania in these types of games on the forum as well as in inventory threads (ie. birds-of-paradise in captivity, etc.) ~Thylo
My point is that the categories are biogeographical, not political - so it's not different at all. But even if you were right, a better conparison would be to note that you wouldn't say the Aruba Rattlesnake is European, even though Aruba is explicitly one of the countries within the Kingdom of the Netherlands and not "merely" a territory.
When I said no-one knows how they got there I meant they have been in Gibraltar almost since they existed, but no-one knows how they physically got there (long before humans of course). Sorry I forgot them. Slightly different because Hawaii is geographically close to North America (if it can be called close). But yes fundamentally I agree
Source? The ABA, AOS, HBW, and IUCN all seem to disagree. Not too many eBird reports or iNaturalist observations, either.
So far, anyway, I made this map. The only think we are unsure about is Mexico. Although @CGSwans said Central America and the Caribbean was with South America and the rest of the Americas was North American, which would include Mexico theoretically. Anyway, here it is:
The uber-reliable Wikipedia EDIT: Just checked IUCN and they actually agree with me. It says they are 'Extant and vagrant' in Florida
Wikipedia literally says it's only a vagrant. The leading theory is that they were introduced and this is supported by mtDNA testing from what I quickly looked up. I suspect what you're referring to is the fact that Wikipedia states they were present before British occupation of the island. It's almost 4000--and increasing-- miles away... ~Thylo
Let's be honest here, e are arguing over trivialities. It also says extant. Let's just wait until later tonight or tomorrow morning for @CGSwans to confirm either way.
Funny fact - there are portions of the continental USA closer to the British Isles than Hawaii is to the continental USA......
The exact quote is "A. b. bahamensis--lesser Bahama pintail--in the Caribbean, and a vagrant to southern Florida" So yeah. ~Thylo
