2-1 for Bronx here. Not only a good collection, but being the frontrunner in the conservation of the popular American bison definitely gives extra bonus marks in my book.
Tentatively including Mexican species (as I firmly believe they should count) and adding in the many birds I missed/forgot about, this is the current Bronx lineup (additions in bold): -American Bison -North American Cougar (three wild-rescued orphans) -Striped Skunk -Western Spotted Skunk -California Sea Lion (various wild-rescued animals) -White-Nosed Coati (found in the United States so should count) -Grizzly Bear (four wild-rescued animals) -Sitka Brown Bear (three wild-rescued orphans) -California Mouse -Cactus Mouse -North American Deer Mouse -North American Porcupine -Merriam's Kangaroo-Rat -Eurasian Harvest Mouse -Western House Mouse -Harris's Antelope Squirrel -Yellow-Bellied Marmot (one wild-rescued individual) -Black-Tailed Prairie Dog -American Golden Eagle (one wild-rescued individual) -Bald Eagle (two wild-rescued individuals) -Red-Tailed Hawk (wild-rescue) -Red-Shouldered Hawk (wild-rescue) -Cinereous Vulture -Ring-Necked Duck -Canvasback -Ferruginous Duck -Black-Bellied Whistling-Duck -Barnacle Goose (they don't have Emperor Geese, accidentally put those instead of these) -Trumpeter Swan -Whooper Swan -Common Goldeneye -Hooded Merganser -Red-Breasted Merganser -Common Merganser -Smew -Northern Pintail -Marbled Teal -North American Wood Duck -American Ruddy Duck -Lesser Scaup -Cinnamon Teal -Bufflehead -Eurasian Kestrel -Tufted Puffin -American Black Oystercatcher -Eurasian Oystercatcher -Forster's Tern -Common Tern -Pied Avocet -Western Capercaillie -Black-Billed Magpie -Green Jay -Song Thrush -Eurasian Goldfinch -Snowy Egret -Boat-Billed Heron -Black-Crowned Night-Heron -Grey-Necked Wood-Rail -Brown Pelican -Roseate Spoonbill -American Flamingo -Burrowing Owl -Eurasian Eagle-Owl -Snowy Owl -Great Horned Owl (ssp. heterocnemis) -Barred Owl (wild-rescued individuals) -Anhinga Now for herps: -American Alligator -Western Black Ratsnake -Sonoran Gopher Snake -Corn Snake -Rio Fuerte Beaded Lizard -Gila Monster -Sonoran Chuckwalla -Giant Horned Lizard -Eastern Collared Lizard -Southern Copperhead -Taylor's Cantil -Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake -Western Diamondback Rattlesnake -Timber Rattlesnake -Southwestern Speckled Rattlesnake -Santa Catalina Island Rattlesnake -Alligator Snapping Turtle -Eastern Painted Turtle -Spotted Turtle -Bog Turtle -Eastern Box Turtle -Red-Eared Slider -Common Musk Turtle -Greek Tortoise -Florida Softshell Turtle -Eastern Tiger Salamander -Eastern Hellbender I'm sure the zoo has more species bts particularly for herps and rescued native birds, but this is what I have so far. Using @amur leopard's species list--with the incorrect species removed--and comparing only mammals and birds, the current match up is 67 Bronx vs 48 Beauval. With the addition of herps, Bronx sits at 94 species for this match. In addition to bison conservation, the zoo participates in projects all over the US and Canada, including but not limited to cleaning up local New York waterways (including the Bronx River which runs through the zoo, a project which saw the return of beavers to the area for the first time in over 100 years), monitoring of Arctic breeding bird populations, preservation of Great Plains habitats, and studying the effects of climate change on mountainous species such as pika. ~Thylo
We haven't even got onto talking about enclosures and we are 3 pages into the tie Anyway, Beauval's brown bear and Arctic wolf enclosure is really good but sadly there aren't any photos that show the whole thing. The lammergeier aviary is large but could be higher. The manatee exhibit is probably on par with Columbus's, maybe better due to underwater and above water viewing. The sea lion exhibit is nice, but not exceptional. Most of the birds are kept in massive buildings with nice landscaping, not individual aviaries. The raccoons and macaques both have nice and large exhibits with wooden climbing frames, but nothing special. Would be interested to hear about Bronx's exhibits but none of Beauval's are beneath good and some a really good.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying that Mexico isn't physically a part of North America - I'm saying that going by zoogeography as the game is, then there are a whole lot of Neotropical species in Mexico so by including Mexico in North America (for the purposes of this game) it negates putting Central America (which is also physically part of North America) under South America. I'm hoping I also make @CGSwans' head hurt.
2-1 Bronx here for me. The collection is very nice, nothing that really jumps out to me, but Capercaillie are awesome and the fact that they keep so many rodent species is also cool. Exhibitory is pretty good; nothing that’s particularly standout but nothing I remember as bad. Obviously Bronx’s work with Bisons (and all their other efforts) is amazing and highly commendable. Nothing much has been said about Beauval, but I’m not very impressed by the species list. Only 6 mammal species (some of which are debatable whether they should be counted), and a bird collection with no amazing highlights. Bronx’s better collection, solid exhibits and stupendous conservation work gives them the win imo.
Conversely, there are a whole lot of desert/forest dwelling species in Mexico that live right along the border of the US that no longer cross over only due to Human activities which wouldn't make any sense to exclude. Simultaneously, counting Mexico as South/Central American would be including species like Pronghorn as neotropical, which is also nonsense. I'm sure we're doing a great job of making @CGSwans' head hurt ~Thylo
Guys, I will answer all these questions a little later in the (Australian) day when the painkillers have had time to kick in.
Not to get into the debate over what constitutes "North America" or not, but there's really no way this species should have any relevance in this thread at all - within North America they're only present in Costa Rica and Panama.
Interesting! Apparently it's because HBW doesn't split Rufous-naped wood rail, Aramides albiventris (which all other relevant taxonomic entities do split) from Grey-necked wood rail, A.cajaneus (which doesn't occur to the North of Costa Rica). This adds another interesting dynamic of what to do with different taxonomic entities treating certain species differently, and thus having different range descriptions... The Bronx bird definitely doesn't have a rufous nape though, as can be seen in this picture, so definitely isn't any of the mexicanus, albiventris or vanrossemi subspecies, which would be the only subspecies counting in a hypothetical "Canada + USA + Mexico" category regardless of whether or not you assign those species to A.albiventris or A.cajaneus. Regardless, and to get back on topic - an easy victory for Bronx here in my opinion!
Huh, I've never even heard of A. albiventris before. Thanks for the information! We can remove the taxa from the list then. ~Thylo
That's why I suggested earlier that "Palaearctic" species in Mexico (e.g. pronghorns, wolves, etc) could be counted under North America, while the "Neotropical" species (e.g. monkeys, guans, etc) could be counted under South America. I think it'd be pretty easy to determine which species go where, in general.
This would be my preference. The logic of including Central America with South, rather than North America is that the local fauna are broadly similar. That holds true for southern Mexico but not really the north, and where species *do* range across the entire country they can be eligible for both regions. My gut tells me it shouldn't be too hard or controversial to work out when a Mexican species is appropriate for North America, South and Central America or both. Spider monkeys? South & Central America. Black bears? North America. Pumas? Both. As a more general observation, I would encourage everybody to be less forensically focused on eligibility. At the moment threads are getting too hung up on working out the exact eligibility of given species, and while accuracy is self-evidently desirable, I'm worried that it's being focused on at the expense of broader discussion across other factors. Unless your vote really does hinge on whether the species collection margin is 54 vs 40 rather than 52 vs 39 (which is valid but, I posit, somewhat self-limiting), then to a certain extent you're better off shrugging your shoulders about the grey-necked wood-rail and moving on. This latter point - a willingness to live with slightly blurred lines of eligibility - is going to be really quite essential in the next format following this one.
With that in mind... Here are some photos of Bronx's enclosures: Brown Bear California Sea Lion American Bison Snowy Owl Mixed Wetland Exhibit (in the Aquatic Bird House) Tufted Puffin
A reasonable and acceptable compromise For completeness sake, this leaves the mammal-bird counts at 65 Bronx vs 46 Beauval, and 92 species total for Bronx. As you said, very trivial difference from the original totals. ~Thylo
Worth noting that this photograph appears to be from before all of the concrete was replaced with grass. Additionally, yes the bears can access the top of the rock and disappear from view if they please and no not all of the zoo's Brown Bears are in this enclosure, only three are. ~Thylo
And here are a few pics from Beauval. Leaving out some of the mammals in dispute (wolves, macaques) and not being able to find photos of bird enclosures, this is what I got: Brown Bear Raccoon Steller's Sea Eagle
I'm not going through every single species that's up for debate, but seriously, Barbary macaques are a definitive European species in my opinion. Don't care if anyone agrees or disagrees but I'm just saying that I personally count them.
Well I'm going 3-0 for the Bronx. I think their species list is far better and larger, their enclosures seem better, and most particularly their local conservation efforts are well worth giving them all the points, especially for saving the American Bison.
