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ZooChat Cup Group E: Miami vs Pairi Daiza

Discussion in 'ZooChat Cup' started by CGSwans, 24 Aug 2019.

?

Ungulates and elephants

Poll closed 27 Aug 2019.
  1. Miami 3-0 Pairi Daiza

    33.3%
  2. Miami 2-1 Pairi Daiza

    66.7%
  3. Pairi Daiza 2-1 Miami

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Pairi Daiza 3-0 Miami

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    12 Feb 2009
    Posts:
    3,292
    Location:
    Melbourne
    The topic? Ungulates. Note that elephants are included in this category for Cup purposes.

    The rules:
    • You have three votes to award. If you think it's a tight match, award 2 votes to the stronger zoo and 1 to the weaker one. But if you think it's a wider margin than that, award all 3 votes to the winner.
    • Your criteria for how you make your decision is entirely up to you, *except* that you must stay only within the given category. That includes ignoring the results of the other match: no strategic voting.
    • All votes are public, and all votes can be changed. The purpose of the game is to provoke debate, so make your case for why people should vote the same way as you do. Be open to reconsidering your vote.
    Edit. Oh yeah, tags. @FunkyGibbon , @ANyhuis , @Sarus Crane , @Maguari , @Mr. Zootycoon , @snowleopard
     
  2. Brum

    Brum Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Location:
    Birmingham, UK
    I've gone for Miami 3-0 because of two reasons, the collection looks pretty damn great and the enclosures for hoofstock and elephants all look above average. Pairi is quite well covered on here, and the paddocks for elephants and hoofstock all appear bland, dusty and lacking in shade.

    Change my mind! ;)
     
  3. snowleopard

    snowleopard Well-Known Member 15+ year member Premium Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Abbotsford, B.C., Canada
    I would have to agree with @Brum here. Zoo Miami has an extraordinary, seemingly endless list of ungulates all around its grounds, and it is one of the top zoos I've ever seen for the diversity of the collection. It would be great if someone could come up with a recent species list, but this category really caters to Zoo Miami's strengths. For now I'm going with 3-0 Miami.
     
    Brum likes this.
  4. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    27 Oct 2008
    Posts:
    5,509
    Location:
    Europe
    For now I am parking my vote 2-1 for Miami, as what I know is that they have an amazing collection in spacious enclosures. Pairi Daiza also has a large collection, but their enclosures are a mixed bag....

    The Good

    The Brazilian tapir enclosure is fantastic, the land part is not special, but the water part is a small brook complete with watermill. One of the classic Pairi Daiza sights

    The Savannah is a nice mix with Cape buffalo, Impala, Wildebeest, Blesbok, Greater kudu, Plains Zebra, African buffalo and Scimitar-horned oryx. The Savannah has recently been combined with an enclosure of the African elephants.

    The Common hippo enclosure is also pretty nice, especially the water part is well done with good viewing opportunities, the land part is on the small side though.

    American buffalo have a huge paddock outside the walls.

    In the Last Frontier there is a spacious paddock for a single European elk (moose) and a few Wapiti, as well as free-ranging

    The average

    Then there are several not very special enclosures throughout the zoo for Sitatunga, Pere David deer + Chinese muntjac, Giraffe, Red river hog. Warthog and Southern white rhino share a smallish boring enclosure.

    Kanchil are kept in a tropical house in a spacious but not very special enclosure with the Bear cuscus.

    Negros warty pig share an awkwardly shaped but fine enclosure with Asian water buffalo.

    Golden takin have a very nice looking enclosure, that is however too small and they cannot always use it to keep it green (an off-show paddock is there). The Asian section also has smallish enclosures for Goral and Blue sheep that are mixed with Cranes as well Gibbon and Binturong respectively. Especially for Blue sheep it feels too small and it is just a lawn.

    The bad

    The Pygmy hippo are kept in the former Fur seal enclosure, which means they have a huge water area, but the land area is absolutely tiny and the area is far too open for a forest inhabitant.

    There are multiple Asian elephant enclosures throughout the zoo. Pairi Daiza has been collecting as many elephants as possible, which means they have many different incompatible animals. Enclosurewise there is a huge enclosure for a group, but it is almost completely bare and for an enclosure that is only a few years old, they should have known size is not everything. The second complex has a beautifully done temple with two outdoor enclosures that are not bad, they are well-furnished but maybe a little bit on the small side. Their elephants (except the bulls) are being regularly walked and even though letting them swim in the lake is a bonus for the animals. The use of mahouts in a western zoo is just outdated. I would let Pairi Daiza lose on Elephants alone as their sole motivation has been collecting as many individuals as possible and I do not approve of their husbandry.
     
    TZDugong, nczoofan, Brum and 2 others like this.
  5. twilighter

    twilighter Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Posts:
    1,034
    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    I very much appreciate the Pairi Daiza's efforts to be number one on the continent, but I do not think the ungulates are it's best card. I have watched one hour video of Miami zoo and honestly, I am not sure who can actually beat them in this category ? I have seen great paddocks with Giant Eland, Sable Antelope, Lowland Nyala/Bay Duiker, Eastern Bongo, Grevy's Zebra, Okapi/Black Duiker, Reticulated Giraffe, Addra Gazelle/Slender-horned gazelle, Arabian Oryx, Greater Kudu, Addax, Black Rhino, Chacoaon Peccary, Pygmy hippo, Somali Wild Ass,Babirusa, Warthog, Red river hog, Lowland Anoa, Banteng and Magnificient Gaur! When it comes to the elephants they easily much Pairi Daiza's biggest trump with African Elephants and Asian elephants. For me is 3:0 for Miami.

    I have seen Greater One-horned Rhino and Malayan Tapir on Miami's web page, but could not find any deers ?
     
    Last edited: 24 Aug 2019
    Brum and snowleopard like this.
  6. Maguari

    Maguari Never could get the hang of Thursdays. 15+ year member Premium Member

    Joined:
    12 Oct 2007
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    Location:
    Chesterfield, Derbyshire
    That pretty much sums it up for me. 2-1 Miami on this seems fair. I loved Miami all round, and a lot of that was down to the ungulates.