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ZooChat Cup Group F: Antwerp vs Zurich

Discussion in 'ZooChat Cup' started by CGSwans, 29 Sep 2019.

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Antwerp vs Zurich: Ungulates and elephants

Poll closed 1 Oct 2019.
  1. Antwerp 3-0 Zurich

    3.2%
  2. Antwerp 2-1 Zurich

    25.8%
  3. Zurich 2-1 Antwerp

    67.7%
  4. Zurich 3-0 Antwerp

    3.2%
  1. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I know parents aren’t supposed to play favourites, but I love Group F just a little bit more than the other groups and I refuse to be shamed over it. Antwerp. Zurich. Ungulates and elephants.

    Rules - you know them by now.
     
    Last edited: 29 Sep 2019
  2. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Group B is very disappointed, but Group D doesn't mind too much. :)
     
  3. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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  4. TheGerenuk

    TheGerenuk Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Let me do a list comparison on this category:

    Both: Asian elephant (both also have Indian in addition to unspecified).
    Antwerp: Malayan tapir, Hartmann's mountain zebra, Balabac chevrotain, Cape buffalo, eastern bongo, giraffe, common hippopotamus, Kirk's dik-dik, Mishmi takin, okapi, red duiker, Reeve's muntjac (with the intention to hold white rhinos soon)
    Zurich: Brazilian tapir, Grevy's zebra, Arabian oryx, blackbuck, guanaco, Javan mouse-deer, Myanmar thamin, nilgai, Persian gazelle, vicuna
    Antwerp: 13, Zurich: 11
    In terms of unique families:
    Antwerp: 2 (giraffes, hippos) (soon to be 3)
    Zurich: 1 (camelids)

    Antwerp wins on species numbers, but I'll wait for enclosure wise.
     
  5. sooty mangabey

    sooty mangabey Well-Known Member

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    Antwerp’s Buffalo Aviary is simply wonderful: the ungulates look fantastic because of the setting, and the birds that enhance things. The whole is definitely greater than the sum of the individual parts. And the Egyptian Temple is one of the great European zoo buildings: if you want dodgy ethnographic theming, at least do it with beauty and elegance. And a beautiful Okapi House too.

    Zürich’s Elephant House is clearly fantastic (even if the outside areas are not as impressive as the house itself), but the rest is not the zoo’s current strength. I think I’m right in saying that there are no longer Ibex in with the Geladas, which is a pity as that’s a great exhibit.

    Antwerp for me!
     
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  6. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Antwerp's herbivore enclosures:
    antwerp cape buffalo aviary.jpg

    A fantastic buffalo and bird aviary enclosure which isn't done justice in the photo sadly.
    antwerp hippo indoor 1.jpg

    A frankly terrible hippo pool

    antwerp hippo outdoor 2.jpg

    A good hippo outdoor enclosure with a massive lake

    antwerp takin enclosure 2.jpg

    A good verging on very good takin enclosure

    Bongo enclosure.jpg

    And a decent bongo enclosure

    Conclusion: enclosures ranging from terrible to excellent, but with a better species list than Zurich...
     
  7. TheGerenuk

    TheGerenuk Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Don't forget their okapis. They have a huge impact with the species at a zoo level.
     
  8. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    There wasn't really a photo of their exhibit on Zoochat...
     
  9. nczoofan

    nczoofan Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    From the photos Antwerps indoor hippo pool looks pretty similar to many other zoos, its just an older setup. Many zoos hide this kind of setup from the visitor. I feel its a low blow to call it terrible, while providing a photo that does not even show the whole accommodation.
     
  10. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Here is what Zurich has to offer:

    elephant outdoor enclosure 1.jpg zurich elephant indoors.jpg zurich elephant pool.jpg zurich pantanal exhibit .jpg zurich pantanal exhibit 2.jpg

    Easily the best elephant indoor enclosure in Europe, one of the best Pantanal exhibits in the world, and a massive elephant pool with fish!

    However, it has the disadvantage in terms of species count...
     
  11. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Ok then, here are more photos

    (Although I still think it is terrible, and at least I am providing photos at all :) )

    antwerp hippo indoor 2.jpg

    EDIT: Sorry about the thumbnail, forgot to make it a full image.
     

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  12. TheGerenuk

    TheGerenuk Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Oh, ok.

    I visited Antwerp a bit more than 2 years ago. I obviously think that their buffalo aviary was fantastic. Most of the exhibits are good to excellent, although there is a letdown with the small indoor hippo enclosure (which is partially mitigated by an outstanding outdoor area)

    2-1 Antwerp for me.
     
  13. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Anyway, based on what I have seen, I am going 2-1 Zurich. They have the better exhibits despite being behind on species count and unique genera.
     
  14. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Really? 3-0 ? I think Kaeng Krachan deserves a point on its own, not to mention all the other fantastic exhibits they have...
    They maybe have the disadvantage in terms of sepcies numbers but...

    I'm excited to see how this thread develops... The votes are very even and spread out, and there are people voting 3-0 on both sides...
     
  15. Penshet

    Penshet Well-Known Member

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    I'm fairly certain that Antwerps dik-diks moved to Planckendael a while ago. They're not signed afaik, and I haven't seen the door to their indoor enclosure open in a long time. They're a pretty reclusive species though, so I may be wrong.

    Antwerp has excellent enclosures for Cape buffalo, Balabac chevrotain, red duiker (less excellent for okapi, but still very good for them), and muntjac. Good enclosures for okapi, takin, bongo, giraffe, Hartmann's mountain zebra, and Malayan tapir.

    However, the indoor enclosures for elephants and hippos are pretty bad, and I hope both these species will be phased out soon-ish since Antwerp is just too small a zoo to hold these animals without sacrificing a lot of precious space. Outdoor enclosures are on the small side, but still okay.

    I'm still going for Antwerp though, on account of the buffalo aviary (which is one of my favourite zoo enclosures ever), their excellent breeding record for the chevrotains, okapis, tapirs, and takins (although most of their breeding group has now moved out).
     
  16. twilighter

    twilighter Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Have heard great things, about Zurich and hope to visit it in December. The Tibetan zone and Kaeng Krachan elephant house, seems like the star hoofed complexes here with a Persian gazelle as a additional gem. Unfortunately the Tibetan zone can not be serious advantage for Zurich, since holding domestic forms, but Elephant building named on a Thailand National park have a strong conservation role. 2 % of the restaurant incomes goes for Kaeng Krachan and Masola.

    Been in Antwerp last year and really loved the zoo. The Cape Buffalo aviary is of course unique, but Egyptian temple, Takin rocks and Okapi conservation history are also in favour of Antwerp. The Balabac chevrotain can be mentioned as a small gem in the Night house.
    For me is 2:1 for Antwerp.
     
  17. TheGerenuk

    TheGerenuk Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Zootierliste still lists them at Antwerp
     
  18. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I voted Zurich 3 Antwerp 0, but will change that to 2-1.

    Antwerp strengths in terms of ungulates are the buildings, not so much animal welfare. The Moorish temple with Okapi & Red duiker is a lovely building, but the enclosures are mostly smallish, but Antwerp's record with this species impressive. Similarly the Egyptian temple with Giraffe, Zebra and Elephants is one of the most beautiful zoo buildings in Europe, but especially for the Elephants it does not suffice at all... The Buffalo aviary is a wonderful enclosure, but mainly because of the birds, for the Buffalo it is fairly average, but still clearly better than in neighboring zoos with this species. As a note, the nocturnal house will close soon (unfortunately), I am not sure what will happen with the Balabac kanchil. The Tahr and Takin are also due to leave / have left already and will make place for Barbary sheep (pure subspecies), but the paperwork to get these from Spain is quite demanding...

    Ungulates are still not Zurich's strength, but they have what is I think the most impressive Elephant complex on the continent. There is broad agreement that the indoor housing is easily the best in Europe, but outdoors is also good. It might not be very spacious, but is filled with enrichment and feeding stations, so it makes for very active elephants. The whole complex is so versatile that they can keep 3 separate Elephant groups there in perfectly fine circumstances, as they have 2 full grown bulls + 2 separated matriarchal lines. They would be happy to send one of the female groups away, but they haven't found a zoo that could give the same level of care.... By having multiple off-show and on-show indoor and outdoor enclosures all groups are rotated throughout the day between the different enclosures, which keeps the Elephants as active as possible. Such excellence alone would be good enough for me to give Zurich my points and the other Hoofstock also cannot complain, though most of their paddocks are somewhat more boring. Noteworthy for people who consider future developments, in 2020 the Lewa savanna will open, which will be a huge paddock for White rhino, Reticulated giraffe and Grevy zebra mixed with several antelope species.

    In terms of conservation Zurich contributes financially to Elephant protection in Kraeng Krachan NP in Thailand as well as to the Lewa conservancy in Kenya which has high densities of white + black rhino, as well as other endangered species like Grevy zebra. Total contributions to conservation of Zurich are about 1.2 million USD per year, but I am not sure how much money goes to these two projects.
     
  19. TheGerenuk

    TheGerenuk Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Only a few hours in and the voting is this close? We're in for a real treat here.
     
  20. snowleopard

    snowleopard Well-Known Member 15+ year member Premium Member

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    There is no way that this match should be 3-0 to either zoo. Zurich has what is generally considered one of the world's premier elephant complexes, with a decent outdoor area and a phenomenal indoor zone. That's worth at least a point right there. Antwerp has the fantastic 'Buffalo Aviary', as well as the beautiful and historic Egyptian-themed elephant/giraffe/zebra house. That's worth a point right there. So which zoo deserves the 2-1 victory?

    Antwerp's Okapi/duiker yards are not very large at all, and the elephant exhibit is puny. Antwerp may have slightly more species (13 to 11), but the exhibits are nothing spectacular whatsoever. Zurich has the excellent Pantanal zone, some average hoofstock yards, and the aforementioned elephant accommodation.

    My vote is 2-1 Zurich