Yeah, I did. Two zoos that by right should be competing for quarter-final spots. But one of them isn't getting through the first round. Small mammals and this might have been a walkover for Frankfurt. Likewise primates and ungulates for Cologne. Birds and reptiles may have been close, but I reckon we've gotten the best category of the lot. Large carnivores. This is going to be great. The concept behind this poll is explained here: ZooChat Cup In summary, the rules of the game are as follows: - You may choose whatever criteria you like to decide how to vote, as long as it only relates to the category above. - You can use whatever resources you like to inform your vote, including Zoolex, Zootierliste, the ZooChat gallery, trip reviews, zoo maps, books and wherever else. You don't have to have visited both zoos to vote. - Votes are public and can be changed at any time before the poll closes. - The aim of the game is to provoke debate. Post explaining why you voted the way you did, and why others should join you. - Voting closes in seven days. - The one thing you can't do is vote based on anything other than the relevant category.
Having just visited both, this is a tough one. For those who are basing it off total species, Cologne will likely win it (lion, tiger, leopard, snow leopard, cheetah, sun bear, grizzly bear etc.). But personally, I much preferred Frankfurt’s small but well done large carnivore collection (lion, tiger, spectacled bear, harbour seal, fur seal). Cologne has the species, but enclosure wise I just preferred Frankfurt...the only large carnivore enclosures at Cologne that really stood out for me were the snow leopard and leopard enclosures.
My vote is starting with Frankfurt. A small collection in almost uniformly fantastic exhibits - the seal exhibit is neither here nor there, but it's not a blot in the copy book like Cologne's bears are. As good as Cologne's big cat exhibits are, it's the divergence between the two bear enclosures that decides it for me. Open to being convinced.
This is a tough one, Cologne clearly has the bigger collection with Lion, Siberian tiger, Cheetah, Persian leopard, Snowleopard, Grizzly, Malayan sun bear and Californian sea lion (but surprisingly no canids since the Maned wolfs have left). Frankfurt "only" has Lion, Sumatran tiger, Spectacled bear, African wild dog, Maned wolf, South-African fur seal and Harbor seal. Cologne also has a fair set of medium-sized carnivores which Frankfurt is almost completely lacking. But Frankfurt is only about 12 hectares in size, whereas Cologne is almost double. One could argue that Frankfurt does a better job giving its limitations of a small city zoo. Frankfurt gave up keeping several bear species and Clouded leopards, the first with good reason, but this reason seemed pretty much absent when considering the leopards. Cologne has relatively recently parted from Spectacled-, Polar- and Asian black bear for good reason and Maned wolf for reasons unclear to me... But overall I am leaning towards Cologne, when also taking enclosures into account. Starting with the worst. Frankfurt has an extremely unremarkable ugly enclosure for their African wild dogs, which could be a lot bigger. Whereas the only large carnivore enclosure in Cologne is substandard is the one for Grizzly bear, which is just too small, though it is well structured. In Cologne's defense they are just waiting for the last remaining Grizzly to die and the individual in question has a good life considering the limitations. I have measured the approximate size for the outdoor enclosures of the big cats, bears and pinnipeds for both collections using google earth. Note that I did not take into account the indoor enclosures for Tiger and Lion which are among the best in Europe in the case of Frankfurt. The Lions in Frankfurt really get the short straw for the cats, with only 500 square meters (though they want to double it in the coming years). The lions in Cologne have almost the double amount of space. Ignoring the water bodies in both Tiger enclosures (which are spacious in both cases), both zoos have about 1200 square meter outdoor enclosures for their Tiger, though I suspect I overestimated for Frankfurt. So no difference there. The two spectacled bear enclosures in Frankfurt are about 1250 square meters combined (and very nicely structured and pleasing to the eye). The Malayan sun bears in Cologne have enclosures of about 450 square meters and 300 square meters. These are quite old and not pleasing to the eye at all, but the maximum use of these old grottoes is realized. The Fur seals in Frankfurt have a slightly larger amount of water than the Californian sea lions of Cologne. The Harbor seals have the smallest tank in Frankfurt. The pinniped enclosures in Frankfurt are relatively unremarkable fake-rock extravaganzas, though still quite good. The Sea lions in Cologne however have an ancient enclosure with a real-looking rock and this enclosure might well be one of the last remaining early 20th century pinniped enclosures in Europe and I find it very pleasing aesthetically. The other cats in Cologne and the Maned wolfs in Frankfurt all have nice enclosures, with the one for Snowleopards being especially pleasing. So overall Frankfurt's Bear enclosures and cat indoors might win from Cologne's counterparts, I prefer the outdoor cat enclosures in Cologne and their pinniped enclosure. The wild dog enclosure in Frankfurt is too ugly and though the Grizzly enclosure in Cologne could be deemed equally bad or worse, the latter will soon be a thing of the past.
I wouldn’t want to skew the vote unfairly based upon my visit to only one of the zoos, but I absolutely loved Cologne and it certainly met all of my fundamental large carnivore needs in a way that Frankfurt would never be able to.
I'm still very open for changing my vote, but I believe my vote is going to Cologne for now, because their enclosures (to me) seem to be a bit more consistently qualitative than Frankfurt's are. The best of Frankfurt is about equal in my opinion to the best of Cologne, but the worst at Frankfurt is worse than the worst at Cologne (when we discount that lone grizzly, since they can't really do anything to change the exhibit as long as it's still there). Also, let's not forget the future; though perhaps distant, Cologne has plans for a jaguar enclosure near the South American house, and a polar bear enclosure close to where the entrance is now. I'm not sure if Frankfurt has much of a (publicly available) master plan regarding large carnivores at all, except for the expansion of the lion enclosure mentioned above? Also, I don't suspect crocodiles count, but if they do that's another ace up Cologne's sleeve. I think something we can all agree on is that it's very sad we're going to have to lose one of these two zoos, though! Both are excellent city zoos with a lot of history, a lot of nice species, and a lot of nice enclosures!
I really love Frankfurt, but Cologne pips this one: the big open-fronted Lion and Tiger exhibits are classic zoo enclosures; the Snow Leopards, Cheetahs and Persian Leopards all have lovely enclosures, and I'm not sure the bear exhibit merits the condemnation it is receiving. And the Sealion pool is marvellous!
Sorry (not sorry). This is one of two first round ties - the other will be the very last - that I've been looking forward to immensely the moment I did the draw. What can I say? I obviously have a sadistic streak.
PS - I'm deliberately being hands-off with definitions, but I must draw the line at crocodiles. Let 'carnivores' be a synonym of 'carnivorans' for this one.
This is truely a depressing match! And although I am not a particular fan of my homezoo Cologne, compared to Frankfurt in 'carnivores' my vote has to go to Cologne. I do like the snow leopard enclosure, I am ok with the lions and the tigers, but I find the persian leopard enclosure a little too small. For the latter, I give the enclosure credit for its vertical built. I find the sea lion-enclosure equally ok, especially ever since they darkened the pool to help with their sea lions eye problems. ((I am whatsoever a big fan of the honey badger enclosure (I am aware honey badgers are not large carnivores... but this enclosure usually gets so much '****' and I really do not understand all the cirticism).)) I truely like the cheetah enclosure and (which is why I vote for Cologne, here again I am a single issue voter) the sun bear enclosures, all three of them. In fact, the sun bear complex, old as it may look to the eyes of the visitor is most likely the best equipped sun bear enclosure that one can find for keeping and the prospect of breeding sun bears. It is well structured, the ground is regularly changed from grass to soil, it has pools and yould theoretically have a bigger moat (if the zoo would only dare because there are not very few swimming sun bears). All enclosures have great enrichment-installations, like shaker trees, digging pipes that go deep into the ground and piles of rotten old wood. It has a perfect wall for scatter feeding and provides a reasonable amount of climbing areas and shade for that matter. I applaud the zoo Cologne for keeping the remaining grizzly granny and not sending her off to a different zoo. I breaks my heart to fear for Frankfurt getting the boot, because we would be loosing the zoo with one of the greatest nocturnal houses ever .
You and me both! I really don’t mind this enclosure. All that would improve it for me would be indoor viewing. But it’s probably quite nice that dear old Chica has his privacy in his own little old man’s home that he now inhabits all of the time.
I'm changing my vote. lintworm's analysis of the respective sizes of key exhibits hints to me that I may have over-estimated the lion enclosure at Frankfurt. I also wasn't aware that the brown bear exhibit I criticised at Cologne is a legacy issue that will be dealt with at the appropriate time. Put them together, and Cologne's superior collection and quality of big cat exhibits puts it over the line. I've been convinced - which is, after all, the point of the game.
Frankfurt is my favourite zoo in the world. The Andean Bear exhibit is world-class, the pinneped pools are very competant, and the setting with the Exotarium in the background is lovely. The Cat Jungle is really fantastic, especially the lush tiger exhibit. BUT, as previously mentioned, the lion exhibit is a bit small. Cologne's bear grottos are also small, but that is ameliorated by the factors mentioned above. Where Cologne really shines is the big cats. It has taken the classic row of cat cages and elevated it beyond any other zoo I've see. Other zoos have better individual enclosures but I really value the fact that Cologne's are of a consistently high standard, and in a row. Maybe that's just me. Ultimately I don't think Frankfurt's exhibitry does enough to counter Cologne's collection.
This one has broken decisively for Cologne after being all tied up barely 24 hours ago. I do feel for Frankfurt - I'm not sure it has quite enough guns to actually *win* the Cup, but it could easily have made a quarter final or even better with the right draw and categories. Cologne has a tough run - one of Odense/Ostrava, where it will likely be favourite, but then possibly Chester and possibly Prague to reach a semi-final. @FunkyGibbon tipped it to win the Cup - if it does, it won't be because it landed an easy draw.
