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ZooChat Cup Match #42: Antwerp vs Dvur Kralove

Discussion in 'ZooChat Cup' started by CGSwans, 13 Apr 2018.

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Birds

Poll closed 16 Apr 2018.
  1. Antwerp

    84.6%
  2. Dvur Kralove

    15.4%
  1. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Both zoos made it to the second round with wins on ungulates and allies: Antwerp 14-3 over Munster and Dvur Kralove against another ungulate powerhouse, Poznan, 15-5.

    This time? Birds. I just had a peek at Zootierliste and counted 149 species at Antwerp to Dvur's 150. So you know, this should be easy.

    Tomorrow: Moscow vs Pairi Daiza.
     
  2. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Changing the order are you :p saving the best (Twycross vs. Wuppertal( to the last :p

    Antwerp's bird collection is a mixed bunch. In terms of species there are quite some rarities, there is a nice bird house and the Buffalo aviary looks great for birds. But there are certainly some small cages and especially the majority of the birds-of-prey cages are just bad....

    I don't know anything about Dvur's bird collection though....
     
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  3. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Oops. That's what I get for not checking my notes.

    Twycross vs Wuppertal it is.
     
  4. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I'm putting my vote with Dvur Kralove for now. Thinking about it, as much as Antwerp is a very good zoo for birds, with a sprawling collection, I think it's quite significant that Dvur has matched them despite having a near complete focus on African species. The geographic limitation might have reduced the range of families or orders on display (or maybe not, I haven't really looked), but it's hard to imagine there's many, if any, zoos that provide such a representative collection of African birds, and that's a significant achievement. Especially since Asian and particularly South American species are so much more in vogue.
     
    Last edited: 13 Apr 2018
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  5. Philipine eagle

    Philipine eagle Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    What a game.

    A quick compare with ZTL:
    woodperckers & allies: Antwerp 3 Dvur 2
    waterfowl: Antwerp 4 Dvur 23
    Shorebirds: Antwerp 8 Dvur 7
    Rollers & hornbills: Antwerp 8 Dvur 13
    Fowls : Antwerp 14 Dvur 6
    Cranes & rails : Antwerp 4 Dvur 8
    Turaco: Antwerp 7 Dvur 8
    Storks & ibis : Antwerp 8 Dvur 19
    Owls : Antwerp 6 Dvur 1
    Doves & pigeons : Antwerp 7 Dvur 8
    Parrots : Antwerp 14 Dvur 10
    Passerines: Antwerp 51 Dvur 37
    Pinguins: Antwerp 4 Dvur 0
    Pelicans: Antwerp 1 Dvur 4
    Ratities: Antwerp 0 Dvur 1
    Birds of prey : Antwerp 7 Dvur 2

    So i guess it will depend on anyone's particular interest
     
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  6. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Wait, Dvur has more turacos than Antwerp now! What a tremendous decline that must be for Antwerp, still 7 species is not bad, but they must have had double-digits a few years ago....
     
  7. Philipine eagle

    Philipine eagle Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Hm, no double digits, the maximum high was to what I know, 8 species.
    The great blues are now in their off exibit breeding station at PL zoo. I think they will return after the hyacinth macaws moved to the new aviaries near the okapis.
     
  8. Philipine eagle

    Philipine eagle Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    In fact, there'not that many small cages left at Antwerp.

    The Buffalo aviary, the Vultures & Cranes aviary, the historical Rotonde aviary and the southside exterior of the Birdhouse are all renovated and extended.

    The real problems are the owl/caracara housing, the other birds of prey are acceptable. The sections with small aviaries in and outside the Birdhouse are for passerines and for species which will soon move to other locations (f.e. the macaws are going to the aviaries near the Okapihouse).

    The aviaries at the back of the Pighouse are closed.
     
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  9. Vision

    Vision Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    I feel like this is a very important variable, so I'll try making as much of a point of it as I can; a lot of the birds Dvur Kralove has are not on-show. For example, of the 18 weaver species mentioned on Zootierliste, @KevinVar, @GerbenElzinga and I only saw 3 or 4, despite looking everywhere multiple times. Pin-tailed whydahs and red-collared widowbirds were nowhere to be found, and the signage in a lot of the houses was very outdated.

    That being said, Dvur is still a great zoo for birds. The first African tropical house has some very interesting species and is beautifully laid out, and the spacious aviaries outdoors are also both good. The same can be said about the aviaries next to the tropical hall.

    However, surely this can't be enough to beat Antwerp? The new flamingo enclosure is wonderful, the Buffalo aviary, while perhaps lacking for buffaloes, is a beautiful new establishment for a lot of bird species, the bird house has the characteristic dark hall, along with rarities like Egyptian plover, Arabian sandgrouse and painted bunting in beautifully designed enclosures. Throw in aviaries for bee-eaters with an actual beehive, a nice penguin exhibit that flows over in a nice shorebird aviary, the large walk-in aviary next to the hippo house, the excellent collection of birds of prey, and so many other small details... Work is being done to improve it still, as an entire row of historical cages for raptors is being rebuilt and redesigned for parrots, which should free up a lot of space in aviaries across the rest of the zoo.

    While not always noticeable between the many moves of species to and from Planckendael, breeding programmes for birds are definitely Antwerp's thing as well; they lead the EEPs and ESBs for Eurasian black vulture, Fischer's turaco, Congo peafowl and Mexican military macaws. Yes, only half of those species are visible in the zoo at the moment, but I reckon the other half will return as soon as construction near the former pig house is finished (the turacos and peafowl were both formerly housed in the aviaries and glass aviary on the back of the pig house).

    If only Antwerp still had the turacos and cracids they were so well-known for 3-4 years ago... But in my opinion, this should still be an easy win for Antwerp.
     
  10. sooty mangabey

    sooty mangabey Well-Known Member

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    Not an easy win, I would say, but a win nonetheless. I love both these zoos, but in my mind's eye I think of Antwerp as having a brilliant collection and display of birds as its strength, while I don't think the same of Dvur - despite its wonderful pelicans, and the very nice tropical aviary.
     
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  11. FunkyGibbon

    FunkyGibbon Well-Known Member

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    Vision makes a good point; Dvur certainly doesn't feel like it has that many birds, and although I haven't visited Antwerp I'd be expecting it to be more than a match for it.
     
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  12. vogelcommando

    vogelcommando Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Knowing Antwerp quite well ( and Dvur not ) mine vote goes to Antwerp because one of the main reasons to visit Antwerp almost every year are the birds :) !
     
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  13. Dassie rat

    Dassie rat Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Both: Dalmatian pelican; western cattle egret; Abdim’s and marabou storks; hamerkop; African spoonbill; glossy and Hadada ibises; Bernier’s teal; fulvous and white-faced whistling ducks; yellow-necked francolin; helmeted guinea fowl; black crake; blacksmith lapwing; helmeted guinea fowl European thick-knee; European thick-knee; Cape turtle dove; speckled pigeon; black-cheeked lovebird; Senegal, white-crested and violet turacos; African grey and Von der Decken’s hornbills; common hoopoe; amethyst, superb and golden-breasted starlings; Madagascar fody; village weaver; red-billed quelea; snowy crowned robin-chat; Sudan golden sparrow; yellow-crowned bishop; yellow-fronted canary

    Antwerp
    Jackass, macaroni, subantarctic gentoo and king penguins
    Waldrapp
    Caribbean flamingo
    Bar-headed goose
    Bataleur eagle; Eurasian black, Ruepell’s griffon, turkey and hooded vultures; crested and striated caracaras
    Asian blue and Californian quails; Congo peafowl; crested wood and Madagascar partridges; Edward’s, Salvadori’s, Palawan peacock and golden pheasants; satyr tragopan; northern helmeted guinea fowl; yellow-knobbed curassow
    Grey-winged trumpeter; sunbittern; western black-crowned crane
    Black-winged stilt; Egyptian plover; Eurasian oystercatcher; ruff
    Arabian chestnut-bellied sandgrouse
    African olive pigeon; laughing and emerald doves; green-naped pheasant-pigeon; Mindanao bleeding-heart
    Eurasian great grey, rock and Verreaux’s eagle, snowy, spectacled and burrowing owls
    Tawny frogmouth
    Blue-headed, Mexican green military and hyacinth macaws; Congo grey, swift and red-billed parrots; double yellow-headed and lilacine amazons; galah; red-flanked and Goldie’s lorikeets; kea; salmon-crested cockatoo
    Blue-naped and speckled mousebirds
    Hartlaub’s, Schalow’s, purple-crested and Fischer’s turacos
    Abyssinian ground and trumpeter hornbills; green woodhoopoe; European bee-eater; lilac-breasted roller
    Green aracari; Inca toucan; red-and-yellow barbet;
    African silverbill; common and zebra waxbills; rosy and Brahminy starlings; Asian fairy blue bird; Bali and greater hill mynahs; blue-crowned laughing thrush; chestnut-backed ground thrush; blue-faced honey-eater; Braziian tanager; house bunting; Gouldian, cut-throat, double-barred, star, Timor zebra and long-tailed finches; greenfinch; red-whiskered bulbul; red-throated and tricolor parrotfinches; red-cowled and northern cardinals ; scaly-breasted munia; crested oropendola; diamond and red-browed firetails; Emei Shan liocichla; European goldfinch; painted bunting; red avadavat; red-billed leiothrix; red-cheeked cordon-bleu; ultramarine grosbeak; Vieillot’s weaver; white-backed magpie; white-faced shama;

    Dvur Kralove
    Common ostrich
    Little grebe
    Great white, spot-billed and pink-backed pelicans
    Black-crowned night, purple and green-backed herons; little bittern; little egret; African open-billed, yellow-billed, saddle-billed and European white storks; Eurasian spoonbill; sacred and southern bald ibises
    Greater and lesser flamingos
    Blue-winged, greylag, northern spur-winged and Egyptian geese; ferruginous, Meller’s, Old World comb, South African black, yellow-billed and Maccoa ducks; Cape shoveler; Cape, marbled, Eurasian green-winged, red-billed and Hottentot teals; garganey; red-crested and South African pochards; South African shelduck
    Martial eagle; secretary bird
    Eastern crested, vulturine and Reichenow’s helmeted guinea fowl; harlequin quail
    Blue, wattled and southern grey-crowned cranes; western Mediterranean purple swamphen
    African jacana; blacksmith, masked and crowned lapwings
    African and Bruce’s green pigeons; blue-headed wood, Madagascar turtle, Senegal laughing and Namaqua doves
    Chestnut-bellied sand grouse
    African spotted eagle owl
    Blue-and-yellow macaw; grey, Kuhl’s brown-necked, Meyer’s, red-bellied and greater vasa parrots; Lilian’s, peach-faced and masked lovebirds
    Black-faced and white-bellied go-away birds; Emin’s and great blue turacos; western plantain-eater
    African pied, trumpeter, southern ground, red-billed, silvery-cheeked, western piping and eastern yellow-billed hornbills; blue-bellied and European rollers; northern carmine bee-eater
    Bearded and red-and-yellow barbets
    Black-headed, golden-backed, Layard’s black-headed, white-headed buffalo, rufous-tailed, vitelline masked and Cape weavers; Cape and chestnut sparrows; emerald, red-winged, wattled and long-tailed and purple glossy starlings; fire-crowned, southern red, Zanzibar and red bishops; magpie manikin; pin-tailed whydah; red-collared and yellow-mantled widowbirds; red-headed quelea; Upper Guinea bulbul; white-crowned robin-chat; white-necked raven; white-rumped seed-eater

    Both zoos have good collections of birds, but vary in the types kept.
    Antwerp has penguins and mousebirds has a better collection of raptors, owls and game birds and a more varied collection of perching birds.
    Dvur Kralove has ostriches, grebes, a much better collection of waterfowl, herons and hornbills and their relatives.

    I am voting for Antwerp, but only just.
     
  14. LaughingDove

    LaughingDove Well-Known Member

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    I have been to both Dvur and Antwerp and I voted Dvur initially. It shouldn't be an easy win for either zoo, and both zoos are quite good for birds and have their strengths and weaknesses, species wise and enclosure wise for birds.

    It's close, but thinking over how nicely done the Antwerp bird house is, I've decided to change my vote to Antwerp. Dvur doesn't really have any exhibits done to quite as high a standard as that.

    I'm tempted to leave my vote as Dvur so that Antwerp doesn't win by quite as much of a margin because I feel like it should be close, but that's not how voting is supposed to work.
     
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  15. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I think the debates are often a better reflection of how close a contest is than the margin. Cologne beat Frankfurt and Plzen defeated Basel by big margins, but each broke away only after much debate.

    It’s good - that’s how this is supposed to work.