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ZooChat Cup QF #4: Burgers (6) vs Rotterdam

Discussion in 'ZooChat Cup' started by CGSwans, 6 May 2018.

?

Carnivores and miscellaneous mammals

Poll closed 9 May 2018.
  1. Burgers

    66.7%
  2. Rotterdam

    33.3%
  1. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Two Dutch giants (and not a rabbit in sight). Both zoos got here comfortably in the third round - Burgers 25-9 over Pairi Daiza on carnivores, Rotterdam 24-6 over Paris on ungulates - though both have earned their way here the hard way, having knocked off the Tierpark, Wroclaw and Leipzig between them as well.

    This time? Carnivores and miscellaneous mammals.
     
  2. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Based on carnivores it is a clear win for Burgers', but for small mammals Rotterdam might just have the edge, as they have a bit more diversity with a Tree shrew, Sengi and Hyrax, compared with only Aardvark for Burgers. In absolute species numbers the difference is minimal, where Burgers' keeps most small mammal rarities though. Overall still a comfortable win for Burgers' for me as the gap on carnivores is too big compared with the gap on small mammals.
     
  3. Philipine eagle

    Philipine eagle Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    With 16 carnivore species in Burgers and 21 species in Blijdorp, I wouldn't say it's a clear win for Burgers'.
     
  4. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Blijdorp has only 16 carnivore species according to ZTL (did you accidentally include Plaswijckpark?). Additionally Burgers's has the rarities Blijdorp is mostly lacking (Swift fox excepted, but won't they leave the collection soon?) and Burgers' has the superior enclosures, except for pinnipeds.
     
  5. Philipine eagle

    Philipine eagle Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I'm a fool and you are right :) 16 species each it is.

    Burgers got indeed excellent enclosures but none of the Blijdorp ones are bad (mayby with the exception of the spotted hyena enclosure, unless it's changed in recent years).
    Burger's tigers haven't separate enclosures while the lion / cheetah enclosures have a lot of space but they're simply nothing more than fenced woodland. De ringtail and the bobcat are the real stars of the collection (pinnipeds never interested me) but the range of small cats in Blijdorp pleases me at the same level.
     
  6. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    The only carnivore enclosures that screams out to me at Blijdorp are the polar bear and tiger enclosures, whereas the sun bear, tiger, lion, cheetah and ringtail enclosures all scream out to me at Burgers’.

    Blijdorp does indeed have the edge with small mammals though, with Cuban hutia in addition to those all mentioned above.
     
  7. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I am not too much of a fan of either in Blijdorp personally. Bothe tiger and bear enclosure are on the small side, though the tiger one is beautifully done. The Polar bears have a nice pool and loads of natural substrate, but for the rest lots of fake rock-work and hardly any shade. For a new development I would have expected more

    There is plenty opportunity to separate them with a smaller cage off-show and many indoor enclosures. But it is true that there aren't 2 large outdoor enclosures, but then that is also not required anymore for Sumatran tiger... The same case could be made for the Leopards, which have 3 outdoor enclosures in Burgers' (2 off-show) and much less separation possibilities in Blijdorp.
     
  8. agnmeln

    agnmeln Well-Known Member

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    It’s all about Burgers’ for me, sorry to be predictable. My good friends maleise beren and ringelrobben do it for me every time.
     
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  9. Mr. Zootycoon

    Mr. Zootycoon Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Finally, the match I've been waiting for! I think it is time to compare the two Dutch giants, and I'll start with carnivores.

    Cats
    Blijdorp of course has its rich history with cats of all sizes, but small cats in particular. Few species remain (serval, fishing cat and pallas cat), but those that do have nice enclosures, and the one for pallas cats is the most remarkable to me. Rotterdam has a strong collection of big cats, with Asiatic lions, Sumatran tiger and Amur leopard. None of these enclosures is a stand out in my opinion, and Blijdorp seems to have a thing of ugly fencing. It takes a second look to discover the charms that each enclosure has. Especially the lion exhibit is nice if you forget about the fencing.

    Pallas cat, lions, tigers
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Burgers' has only one small cat (bobcat), and the enclosure is decent but completely indoors. I does however, fit nicely within the Desert area. The big cat collection surpasses Rotterdam's, as Burgers not only has lions, tigers and (Sri Lankan) leopards, but also cheetahs. The lion and cheetah enclosure are great for the animals but look rather bare in winter, but it's a different story in summer. The tiger and the leopard enclosure are excellent. The latter especially, as it provides shelter, differences in hight and lush vegetation, and still offers good views.

    Bobcat, cheetah, leopard
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Canids
    Blijdorp obviously wins on canid collection. Even now the wolf pack has died out, they still have arctic fox, maned wolf and swift foxes, the latter being the rarest carnivores of the park. All enclosures are good, although viewing is rather poor for the maned wolves. The arctic foxes have a great enclosure though. Unfortunately, both the maned wolf and the swift fox are due to leave the collection, leaving only arctic fox.

    Arctic fox
    [​IMG]

    Burgers has only one exhibit, housing breeding group of golden jackals, but the quality is very high. Build in roughly the same style as the leopard enclosure, it shares many of its qualities.

    Golden jackal (no good enclosure pictures in gallery, unfortunately)
    [​IMG]

    Mongooses
    None of the zoos has an interesting set up for mongooses. Blijdorp though has two species, exhibiting not only meerkats but also yellow mongooses. Both have decent enclosures. Extra point for Blijdorp as the meerkat's indoor exhibit is visible.

    Yellow mongoose
    [​IMG]

    Burgers' has only meerkats, but the exhibit is arguably better than Blijdorp's. It has more live vegetation where the animals frequently forage. Another nice feature is the presence of a heat lamp in a fake tree, which attracts the meerkats to a spot close to the public.

    Meerkats
    [​IMG]

    Bears
    Blijdorp's one and only bear exhibit houses polar bears. Although it has various shortcomings (as explained by @lintworm), it is still one of the best enclosures for the species I've seen. Providing natural substrate and plants is a nice feature, and the huge viewing window can result in spectacular views.

    Polar bears
    [​IMG]

    Burgers', however, is also not weak when it comes to bears. Their sun bear exhibit is impressive, and offers multiple climbing opportunities, hight differences and lush vegetation. The views are great, and if it gets too cold, the bears have a visible indoor exhibit. Recently, even more climbing structures have been added.

    Sun bears
    [​IMG]

    Pinnipeds
    When it comes to enclosures, Blijdorp dominates in this category. Their California sea lions live in an impressive exhibit, allowing for both views on land and under water. The pool is large and deep. Arguably one of the best carnivore exhibits in Rotterdam.

    Sea lions
    [​IMG]

    Burger's can only counter that with the species on display, as the pool housing ringed seals (which by the way, is much deeper than one would expect) is one of, if not the worst carnivore exhibit in the zoo. The very rare ringed seals however, do breed there.

    Ringed seals
    [​IMG]

    Procyonids
    Blijdorp has one species of procyonid, the common raccoon. The enclosure however is nicely themed and gives the animals both opportunies to climb as well as shallow water area and vegetation.

    Northern raccoon
    [​IMG]

    Burgers' coati exhibit rivals Rotterdam's raccoons. It is huge (in fact a former tiger enclosure), well planted, allows for digging and with lots of climbing frames. But, as we all know, Burgers' has another procyonid, the rare ringtail. It is exhibited in two nice enclosures in the Desert. Especially the larger of the two allows for a full range of natural behaviours.

    Ring-tailed coatis
    [​IMG]

    Other carnivores
    Blijdorp has representatives of two families that are absent in Burgers'. Spotted hyena is one of them, but as their enclosure is being/has been renovated I can't commend on exhibit quality. The new red panda enclosure is very good though, if only those pandas just stayed inside it :p

    Red panda
    [​IMG]

    Burgers' has three families that Rotterdam doesn't exhibit. The striped skunk lives in the same enclosure as the ringtails. Then there are the Asian small-clawed otters in the Bush, housed in a large enclosure, and the binturongs living alongside the sun bears. The otters have the excellent enrichment opportunity of finding a breeding fruit dove in their next box :p Not so excellent for the dove naturally.

    Otters
    [​IMG]

    Thanks for the extensive photographic series by @vogelcommando and @Toddy in the gallery, which capture the far majority of the exhibits.
     
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  10. vogelcommando

    vogelcommando Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Completly personal but this time I go for Blijdorp ( sorry Burgers :( ! ).
     
  11. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    If this challenge would have been held 10 years ago, Blijdorp would have won, they have seen the departure of Rusty-spotted cat, Asian golden cat, Malayan civet, European wolves, Eurasian otter, Asian small-clawed otter and Sea otter in the meantime though....
     
  12. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    On carnivores and miscellaneous mammals?
     
  13. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    As @Dassie rat takes a bit long, he gets his new avatar again ;)

    Carnivores

    both: Sumatran tiger, Slender-tailed meerkat

    Diergaarde blijdorp
    Asiatic lion, Amur leopard, Pallas' cat, Fishing cat, Serval
    Spotted hyena
    Yellow mongoose
    Arctic fox, Maned wolf, Swift fox
    Polar bear
    Nepalese red panda
    Northern raccoon
    Californean sea lion

    Burgers' Zoo
    African lion, Sri-lankan leopard, Cheetah, Bobcat
    Binturong
    European golden jackal
    Malayan sunbear
    Ringtail, Red coati
    Striped skunk
    Asian small-clawed otter
    Ringed seal (both Baltic and Arctic subspecies)

    Small mammals

    both: Swamp wallaby

    Diergaarde Blijdorp
    Belanger's tree shrew
    Cape hyrax
    Black-and-rufous sengi
    Black-tailed prairie dog, Cape ground squirrel, Cape porcupine, Common hamster, Cuban hutia, Greater guinea pig, Prevost's squirrel

    Burgers' Zoo
    Aardvark
    Lyle's fruit bat, Rodriquez fruit bat, Seba's short-tailed bat
    Merriam's kangaroo rat, Cactus mouse, Hispid cotton rat, Common rock squirrel, Capybara

    Overall Burgers' keeps more Carnivore families and Blijdorp more small mammal families. The collection at Blijdorp is slightly larger with 16 vs 14 carnivore species and 11 vs 10 small mammal species. Burgers' does however have the far more interesting collection, when looking at animals held in 10 European zoos or less Blijdorp has Black-and-rufous sengi and Swift fox, whereas Burgers' has Ringtail, Ringed seal, Merriam's kangaroo rat, Cactus mouse, Hispid cotton rat and Common rock squirrel.

    What is laudable for Blijdorp is the effort they take in breeding Common hamster behind the scenes for reintroduction projects (none are visible to the public). On the other hand Burgers' has more or less on his own established the current Aardvark population in Europe, even now over a third of Europe's Aardvarks were born in Arnhem.
     
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  14. Haasje

    Haasje Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Personally, I visit both zoos very often, both about ones a month. Since I live now close to Rotterdam but my parent live in Arnhem. Therefore it is a hard but interesting pair up. Collection of both zoos are great and diverse, although Blijdorp tends to have some more personal favourites for me. But when it comes to presentation it is Burgers all the way for me. Although the exhibits in Blijdorp often are good, the manner of ecosystem display at Burgers triumphs for me.
     
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  15. Dassie rat

    Dassie rat Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Carnivores

    Both: Meerkat; Sumatran tiger;

    Arnhem
    Binturong
    Bobcat; South African cheetah; lion; Sri Lankan leopard
    European golden jackal
    Sun bear
    Asian small-clawed otter
    Baltic seal (including Arctic ringed seal)
    Striped skunk
    Ringtail; ring-tailed coati


    Rotterdam
    Spotted hyena
    Yellow mongoose
    Siberian Pallas’s cat; serval; fishing cat; Asiatic lion; Amur leopard
    Arctic and swift foxes; maned wolf
    Polar bear
    California sea lion
    Northern raccoon
    Nepalese red panda


    Arnhem has a civet, mustelid, skunk and true seal.
    Rotterdam has a hyena, sea lion and red panda.
    Arnhem wins on family diversity.

    Miscellaneous mammals
    Both: Swamp wallaby;


    Arnhem
    Aardvark
    Merriam’s kangaroo rat; cactus deer mouse; hispid cotton rat; capybara; common rock squirrel
    Lyle’s and Rodriguez flying foxes; Seba’s short-tailed bat


    Rotterdam
    Black-and-rufous sengi
    Cape hyrax
    Belanger’s tree shrew
    Common hamster; Cape porcupine; greater guinea pig; Desmarest’s hutia; Black-tailed prairie dog; cape ground squirrel; Prevost’s squirrel


    Arnhem has an aardvark and bats
    Rotterdam has a sengi, hyrax and tree shrew and wins on family diversity.


    Arnhem has more species of procyonids
    Rotterdam wins as it has more species of cats, dogs and mongooses


    Rotterdam has more rodents, so wins over Arnhem in extra time.