ZooChat Cup S2 Match #23: Saint Louis vs Sedgwick County

Two seeds go head to head this match this time with birds. Saint Louis includes a historic bird house, and the state of the art Penguin and Puffin Coast habitat. Sedgwick County includes a tropical building with many birds, a South America section with multiple species as well and a penguin pool.

Also a happy fathers day to any dads out there!

Tomorrow: Los Angeles vs Detroit

 

Saint Louis has the Horned Guans, Northern Carmine Bee-Eater, King Eider, Great Indian Hornbill, and Golden Whiteeyes but that's it really for odd species afaik meanwhile Sedgwick County has Golden and Saipan Whiteeyes, Buffon's Macaw, Collared Finchbill, Greater Yellow-Headed Vulture, Grey Gull, Freckled Duck, Dollarbird, Australian Wood Duck, Argentine Ruddy Duck, Wonga Pigeon, Pesquet's Parrot, Oriole Warbler, Peruvian Thick-Knee, Beautiful Fruit-Dove, and the list goes on! I think it's really hands down Sedgwick here.

~Thylo

 

This is a sentiment that I can agree with, as looking at full species lists for the two zoos there really is no comparison.

Saint Louis (mostly contained in this post):
Species List for Saint Louis Zoo

Sedgwick:
Sedgwick County Zoo[Animals & Exhibits - Animal Search]

Further rarities at Sedgwick that Thylo didn’t mention include golden-headed quetzal, Taiwan yuhina, and bush stone curlew. Against most other zoos Saint Louis would win but Sedgwick, for such a little-known zoo (among zoo nerds) is clearly the winner here.

 

I don't know how the bird exhibits are at Sedgwick County, but for anyone taking exhibits into account Saint Louis has Penguin & Puffin Coast to back it up in this fight

Additionally, Saint Louis has a historic Bird House (which has received mixed reviews on this site, but which I enjoy very much), a pleasantly beautiful bird garden and especially beautiful crane exhibit, and the 1904 Flight Cage replicating a cypress swamp with numerous species of waterfowl.

 

This was a tough one (for an outsider, at least), both zoos are in my (imaginary) "Top 5 To Visit, USA List"* and I've only gone for Sedgwick County because of the two compelling arguments above. If anyone can expand on @Coelacanth18's argument then I may be tempted to switch.

*If anyone is interested then the other three are Columbus, Omaha and San Diego.

 

List of birds at Saint Louis:
Sacred Ibis
Superb Starling
Red-Billed Hornbill
Kenyan Crested Guineafowl
Domestic Budgerigar
Domestic Chicken
American Crow
Barred Owl
Red-Tailed Hawk
Humboldt Penguin
King Penguin
Southern Rockhopper Penguin
Gentoo Penguin
King Eider
Tufted Puffin
Horned Puffin
American Flamingo
Wood Duck
American White Pelican
Black-Necked Swan
Red-Crested Pochard
Egyptian Goose
Aleutian Cackling Goose
Canada Goose
Bar-Headed Goose
Swan Goose
Great Egret
Black-Crowned Night Heron
Chestnut teal
Great Hornbill
Toco Toucan
Bateleur
Red-Legged Seriema
Helmeted Currasow
Tawny Frogmouth
Guam Kingfisher
Magnificent Ground Pigeon
Cape Thick-Knee
Palawan Peacock Pheasant
Bali Mynah
Luzon Bleeding Heart
Laughing Kookaburra
White-Headed Buffalo Weaver
Rhinoceros Hornbill
Northern Carmine Bee-Eater
Spur-Winged Plover
Horned Guan
Ringed Teal
Sunbittern
Edward's Pheasant
Golden-Breasted Starling
Victoria Crowned Pigeon
Burrowing Owl
Elegant Crested Tinamou
Buff-Crested Bustard
Magpie Robin
White-Cheeked Bulbul
Crested Wood-Partridge
King Vulture
Cinereous Vulture
Bald Eagle
Cabot's Tragopan
Great Horned Owl
White-Naped Crane
Blue-Bellied Roller
Gray-Winged Trumpeter
Speckled Pigeon
White-Throated Ground-Dove
Roseate Spoonbill
Bufflehead
Yellow-Crowned Night Heron
Snowy Egret
Northern Bobwhite
American White Ibis
Cattle Egret
Canvasback
Green Heron
Northern Shoveler
Blue-Winged Teal
Double-Crested Cormorant
Northern Pintail
Northern Cradinal
Mourning Dove
White-Throated Sparrow
Saddle-Billed Stork
East African Crowned Crane
Sarus Crane
Common Osrich
Wattled Crane

STL studies bird diseases in the Galapagos and helps find ways to cure them. STL is also helping to establish a Humboldt Penguin reserve in Peru, and supports Horned Guan conservation. Saint Louis also works with Pacific Bird Conservation to help establish populations of island endemic birds in US zoos. STL and PBC are responsible for the AZA populations of Guam Kingfisher, Mariana Fruit Dove, Golden White-Eye, White-Throated Ground Dove, Saipan Briled White-Eye, Roufus Fan-Tail, and Tinian Monarch.

STL has a lot going for it. I will not vote for it now, but I will vote for STL unless someone has a reason I should vote for Sedwick County.

 

PBC may be responsible, but STL is not. The primary species listed which STL can make a serious claim for involvement with are golden white-eye and white-throated ground dove. Saipan white eyes are kept by four institutions, and bred by two, one of which is Sedgwick, rather than STL, which does not keep the species. The programs for Tinian monarch and rufous fantail were practically dead ends from their starts, with extremely high mortality rates and the only reason the former still persists in American zoos is because of Memphis. I am unsure if the latter is still present in captivity at all, but if it is, it is not at STL.

Besides breeding Saipan white-eyes and otherwise participating in the Marianas Avifauna Conservation Plan with Pacific Bird Conservation, Sedgwick contributes to the establishment of the same Humboldt penguin reserve. Additionally, through the Guam rail Species Survival Plan they directly fund management programs for the species in the Marianas. Further efforts include donating to the Save the Cassowary campaign, supporting field conservation for the thick-billed parrot, and aiding the Johannesburg Zoo’s Wattled Crane Recovery Program.

Sedgwick’s diverse range of conservation programs, as well as superior collection allow it to be the clear winner in this competition.

 

I agree that there is a clear winner in this category...Saint Louis Zoo. I find these friendly competitions amusing but also informative as there are many ways to 'skin a cat' and thus many ways to rank zoos. Sedgwick County and Saint Louis are both superb, very complete zoological facilities and I'm a huge fan of both places. In fact, I'd argue that they are a couple of zoos that would both make it into my top 6 in the USA. The latest data from the International Zoo Yearbook funnily enough lists both zoos with the exact same number of bird species (150) but this category probably comes down to whether an individual is searching for rare taxa (Sedgwick County wins) or exhibit quality (Saint Louis wins).

I'm more of an exhibit guy and having visited literally hundreds of different zoos I must declare that Penguin & Puffin Coast at Saint Louis Zoo is one of the best bird exhibits ever built in the United States. Being incredibly close to penguins in a chilled environment with minimal barriers is an awe-inspiring experience and that single exhibit probably gives Saint Louis the win right then and there. Sedgwick County can have a whole flock of quetzals and it wouldn't make a lick of difference. Also at Saint Louis Zoo is Cypress Swamp, which is a spectacular old aviary from the 1904 World's Fair, and it is one of the most historically vital structures to be found in any American zoo. Then there is the 1930 Bird House, the surrounding 2-acre Bird Garden and several scenic waterfowl ponds. Saint Louis is actually a GREAT zoo to see birds in wonderful habitats.

Sedgwick County Zoo has the same number of bird species as Saint Louis Zoo but apparently more rarities and for the most part the exhibits are very good. The 1977 'Jungle' rainforest building is impressive and filled with bird-life, including fairly recent additions such as Guam Rail, Micronesian Kingfisher and Birds of the Marianas Islands. The Australia-South America part of the zoo is essentially a 70,000 square foot covered zone that has plenty of choice bird species and I can recall a free-flying King Vulture from my 2010 visit. Penguin Cove (2007) is top-notch and I remember seeing a Saddle-billed Stork in the spacious Okapi enclosure. However, nothing that Sedgwick County has in terms of exhibits can compete with the tremendous quality at Saint Louis.

 

Are you? That didn’t stop you from voting for SDZ in terms of species

For the visitors, maybe... but not necessarily for the penguins. The large visitor path obstructs the total space the penguins would have otherwise, and as a result they only have thin strips of land and water on either side of the path as opposed to the large area they would otherwise have if the visitor path were off to the side. Furthermore, the amount of visitors clearly puts undue stress on the penguins and having been to Saint Louis many, many times I’ve almost always seen visitors harassing the birds. Despite this constant issue I rarely see zoo staff present to intervene and with just one species infrequently breeding in the exhibit the unfortunate effects of this are clear. I do not disagree that it is a one-of-a-kind visitor experience, but I do not think it is justified to be one of America’s top bird exhibits.

Even for people who aren’t bird fans, quetzals turn heads. Put them in their largest exhibit in an American zoo (and the most lushly planted one too!) and zoo nerds will flock to it.

 

I haven't been to either zoo, are sedgwick county's exhibits bad?

 

@jayjds2 I still think that San Diego Zoo's reptile exhibits are terrific. The 1930s-era Reptile House has terrariums much larger than many others that I've seen, plus all of the outdoor yards in that general area are simply spectacular. The Slender-snouted Crocodile and Gharial pools are brilliant. San Diego has a world-class reptile collection and most of those species are in exhibits that are excellent. That zoo has the taxa and the quality!

Interesting to know that information about Penguin & Puffin Coast. From a visitor point of view it is an A+ experience.

Sedgwick County is a fine zoo with a great bird collection but I honestly feel that Saint Louis has the same number of species and is leagues ahead in terms of the quality of the exhibits. Actually, Sedgwick County as an entire zoo has many very good exhibits but not many truly world-class ones. The zoo probably doesn't have a single complex that would make a 'top exhibit' list even though taken as a whole the zoo is a major, underrated facility.

 

Sedgwick County Zoo's bird exhibits are all decent, with 2007's Penguin Cove perhaps being the highlight. However, there is no historic 1930 Bird House like the one at Saint Louis Zoo, or the 1904 aviary, or the outdoor Bird Garden, or the waterfowl ponds, or Penguin & Puffin Coast.

 

The fact that the bird house is from the 1930s doesn’t excuse the fact that most of the exhibits are sterile, with bland backgrounds, devoid of plant life. The 1904 aviary maybe be old and pretty, but that doesn’t excuse its relative emptiness. The fact that the outdoor aviaries are in a Bird Garden doesn’t excuse the fact that the ones for vultures and eagles are so small that they’re no more capable of flight than the penguins and pinioned waterfowl elsewhere in the zoo.

 

I believe the "Jungle" (now "The Tropics") has been renovated since your last visit to Wichita, no? I remember seeing it in 2013 before the renovation and it is much more enjoyable now. There is a lot of natural light flowing in and the bird collection within is top-notch. That being said, It's hard to beat the historical exhibits at Saint Louis (and Puffin Penguin Coast). While Saint Louis has a couple of great rarities, I personally find Sedgwick's bird collection slightly more interesting.

Incidentally, Sedgwick's website is not up to date.
Here is a list I've compiled that should be reasonably up to date.

Bar-headed Goose
Red-breasted Goose
Cape Barren Goose
Freckled Duck
Black Swan
Coscoroba Swan
Orinoco Goose
Ruddy Shelduck
Radjah Shelduck
Ringed Teal
Mandarin Duck
Maned Duck
American Wigeon
Chiloe Wigeon
Blue-winged Teal
Cinnamon Teal
Red Shoveler
New Zealand Shoveler
White-cheeked Pintail
Northern Pintail
Puna Teal
Baikal Teal
Marbled Teal
Red-crested Pochard
Hooded Merganser
Scaly-sided Merganser
Ruddy Duck
Lake Duck
Blue-billed Curassow
Crested Partridge
Edward’s Pheasant
Wild Turkey
American Flamingo
Greater Flamingo
Humboldt Penguin
White Stork
Saddle-billed Stork *off exhibit
Wood Stork
Great White Pelican
Pink-backed Pelican
Boat-billed Heron
Straw-necked Ibis
Puna Ibis
Roseate Spoonbill
King Vulture
Bald Eagle
Sunbittern
Guam Rail
Black Crake
Black Crowned-Crane
Demoiselle Crane
Florida Sandhill Crane
Peruvian Thick-knee
Bush Thick-knee
Masked Lapwing
Gray Gull
Inca Tern
African Collared-Dove
Tambourine Dove
Crested Pigeon
Wonga Pigeon
Crested Quail-Dove
Nicobar Pigeon
Luzon Bleeding-heart
Green-naped Pheasant-Pigeon
Victoria Crowned-Pigeon
Mariana Fruit-Dove
Beautiful Fruit-Dove
Black-naped Fruit-Dove
Bruce’s Green Pigeon
Great Blue Turaco
Red-crested Turaco
Crested Coua
Guira Cuckoo
Tawny Frogmouth
Speckled Mousebird
Golden-headed Quetzal
Green Woodhoopoe
Wrinkled Hornbill *off exhibit
Blue-crowned Motmot
Laughing Kookaburra
Guam Kingfisher
Blue-bellied Roller
Dollarbird *off exhibit
Green Aracari
Red-legged Seriema
Kea
Palm Cockatoo
Galah
Salmon-crested Cockatoo
White Cockatoo
Pesquet’s Parrot
Regent Parrot
Grand Eclectus Parrot
Crimson Rosella
Eastern Rosella
Pale-headed Rosella
Blue-headed Parrot
Red-crowned Parrot
Yellow-naped Parrot
Yellow-shouldered Parrot
Hyacinth Macaw
Thick-billed Parrot
Sun Parakeet
Yellow-collared Macaw
Blue-and-Yellow Macaw
Blue-throated Macaw
Great Green Macaw
Scarlet Macaw
Red-and-Green Macaw
Red-fronted Macaw
Golden Parakeet
Spangled Cotinga
Blue-faced Honeyeater
White-breasted Woodswallow
Inca Jay
Collared Finchbill
Common Bulbul
Oriole Warbler
Taiwan Yuhina
Golden White-eye
Bridled White-eye *off exhibit
Chinese Hwamei
Scarlet-faced Liocichla *off exhibit
Red-billed Leiothrix
Asian Fairy-Bluebird
Snowy-capped Robin-Chat
Grosbeak Starling
Violet-backed Starling
Golden-breasted Starling
Emerald Starling
Red-capped Cardinal
Blue-gray Tanager
Cinereous Finch
Venezuelan Troupial

 

There is water beneath the path which allows penguins to swim from one side to the other, so technically the path does not obstruct the penguins' space. Also, the exhibit was designed so that penguins surround the visitors on both sides. We can have different opinions about whether that was a good decision or not, but if they hadn't done it that way it would be a very different exhibit.

I won't comment on visitor harassment of penguins or zoo staff's competency in dealing with it, as I have never witnessed this being a problem and have no knowledge of how it might be affecting the animals.

You say sterile, I say simplistic The lack of plant life makes it easier to view the birds. I don't know how this affects individual species from a privacy perspective, but the House has always been very quiet when I've been inside (it doesn't seem to attract as many visitors as the Reptile and Primate Houses) so that hopefully reduces potential stress.

The last time I visited, the Flight Cage had a lot of active and highly visible birds in it, so either our experiences or interpretations of "empty" must be somewhat different.

The puny enclosures for birds of prey are my major complaint about Saint Louis bird-wise... I wish they would renovate that end of the Bird House and make one large aviary for a single species of raptor, or maybe two smaller (but still large) enclosures for hornbills and seriema.

 

And Hooded Merganser.

 

I'm a bit surprised to see how much visitor pleasure if being put over animal welfare here.. While obviously I highly doubt that Saint Louis does not treat their animals well, a penguin exhibit designed in a way that causes stress for the animals and bird enclosures lacking the highly necessary plant-based amenities birds need sound like good reasons to knock the zoo down a few pegs, regardless of how much easier they are to view or how good-looking the enclosure is.

I also find it funny how conservation and the founding of captive breeding programs for endangered species were both dismissed readily when Atlanta was beating San Diego in that category, but for Saint Louis it's falsely brought up very quickly...

~Thylo

 

Without making assumptions about who this was referring to, I'd like to clarify my opinions on animal welfare in this situation. They are implied somewhat in my original post:

Animal welfare is a tricky situation to handle, IMO. It can be a heavy statement, leveling a charge of animal welfare compromising against a zoo, and I prefer not to do that without concrete evidence. While I don't doubt the credibility of @jayjds2's account or the logical soundness of their deductions, neither of those are evidence and neither are enough to make me comfortable jumping on board with the conclusion that animal welfare is being significantly impacted in this particular case. This doesn't mean that I don't care about the well-being of the birds; it just means I feel like I don't have enough information to make any kind of judgement call about it.

 

With 5.5 hours left to go, this vote is currently tied at 8-8, with one of the Saint Louis votes not being counted per the zero-posts-and-no-explanation rule... if @Choco115 would like to join the conversation to prevent a rematch, now would be the time.

 

How can you tell who has voted?