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Discussion in 'Fantasy Zoos' started by DragonDust101, 29 Sep 2016.

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  1. Ebirah766

    Ebirah766 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, ok.
     
  2. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member

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    I look forward to hearing the other Aquarium installments :)
     
  3. DragonDust101

    DragonDust101 Well-Known Member

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    I hope more people will contribute, we need more African, south American, and north American exhibits, and a reptile house!
     
  4. MoleRat

    MoleRat Active Member

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    So you asked for a reptiles house, her you go.

    Right in front are the entrance are three terrariums(I am pretty sure that's what reptile exhibits are called) Housing 3 reptiles from New Zealand : The copper skink, The Jewelled gecko and the tuatara. Now, I know you can't get these species in real life, but this a FANTASY zoo, so I hope your'e okay with that.

    The Reptile house is divided into sections based on continent : Australia, Africa, Asia, And the Americas.


    First, Australia:


    As you enter the gallery, you see two tanks housing Fly River turtles and another with Common Snake-necked turtles. Each is not full-to-the-top with water, both have a land area and small cave as shelter for the turtles, and there are underwater plants in the middle of the tank, but not around the edges. Near them are the Python exhibits, housing A Jewelled Python, A Woma and a water python. Next are the other snake exhibits with common tree snakes, Slender sea snakes, and an inland taipan.

    The rest of the Asutralia section will be posted soon.
     
  5. DragonDust101

    DragonDust101 Well-Known Member

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    This is astounding! The zoo so far is coming together, exhibits are being voted in. However, we still need more contributions. Thanks to MoleRat for his reptile house. Although, I'm thinking that I will have to either close the entering process or make people create one more exhibit, a dark day for the forum. :confused:
     
  6. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member

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    Actually MoleRat you could theoretically get tuatara. To my knowledge there are a few kept outside of NZ :) Chester and Berlin have them for example.
     
  7. Zygodactyl

    Zygodactyl Well-Known Member

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    Why? Pachyderms aren't a valid taxon and they don't fill similar ecological niches. It seems like you're teaching visitors that a grouping which has been invalid for years is a valid phylogenetic grouping, which seems contrary to the educational mission of a zoo.

    I strongly object to keeping giant pandas under the current terms the Chinese government offers. Also, what birds will you keep in the aviary? I'd suggest the Sichuan jay if you can get your hands on some.
     
  8. pachyderm pro

    pachyderm pro Well-Known Member

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  9. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member

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    @Zygodactyl bear in mind it's a community (and fantasy!) zoo, so if Zoolover1020 wants them they're welcome to them! Also, if the overall exhibit is voted as one of the most popular it will be going into the zoo :)
     
  10. Zygodactyl

    Zygodactyl Well-Known Member

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    @pachyderm pro: I didn't notice that it replaced the pachyderms; I like the Nile exhibit, though it's a bit hard to read as one huge paragraph. Have you considered secretary birds as well? Like the shoebill they'll neat and endangered.

    @ShonenJake13:
    Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that it was permissible to critique exhibits, so I'm sharing my objection to pandas, and request for more information on the aviary.
     
    Last edited: 22 Nov 2016
  11. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member

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    @Zygodactyl fair enough :) I'm curious to hear what you think of Primatopia (my exhibit) now!!
     
  12. Zygodactyl

    Zygodactyl Well-Known Member

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    I like that you mostly chose species which would be obtainable, and tried to get a good variety of animals from a variety of clades. I really like that you included the bonobo and the aye-aye. However your exhibit seems heavily biased towards one tribe of Old World monkeys. You've left out some important groups entirely which should be possible to obtain and interesting for visitors:
    1. Gelada a vegetarian monkey similar to a baboon, which like humans it copied its butt onto its chest.
    2. Owl monkeys (any species). The only nocturnal monkey, the only primate dichromat.
    3. Ceboid monkeys. Maybe you were trying to stay away from stereotypical monkeys, but I still feel like squirrel monkeys and/or capuchins should be represented. Squirrel monkeys in particular are always a hit with visitors due to how active they are.
    4. Bushbabies. You do have lorises, but this is a gimme.
    5. Gray mouse lemur. A lemur family not represented in your list. This is the only species held by more than two European zoos; you've got at least as good a chance of getting one as getting an aye-aye.
    6. Orangutang (either species). I'd understand being concerned about space, but if you have gibbons, gorillas, and bonobos, it feels odd that this taxonomic branching was left out.
    I also want to suggest including colugos and tree shrews in the exhibit (to show how primates arose) and a playground psuedo-exhibit for H. sapiens. (If you have a primate exhibit, it might help to show our place in it, and this seems slightly less tacky than human volunteers in fig leafs or a giant mirror, which are the other two ways I know if it being done.) But that's because I'm obsessed with taxonomy even in non-taxonomically-based exhibits.
     
    Last edited: 22 Nov 2016
  13. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member

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    To start off, this exhibit is not necessarily meant to be completely taxonomically accurate, including every branch. Let me answer each query, and then say which animals I would add if I were to do every branch. However, for now I have submitted and therefore will be leaving it as is :)

    1. Geladas would be good but would need a lot of clear space to graze on their island. Since all the island enclosures have relatively dense areas of trees on them a much plainer island would be very different and wouldn't stand out as much for me.
    2. Night monkeys are very cool, but again, they would require a lot of room which would be taken up by the aye-ayes mostly.
    3. I was indeed trying to stay away from stereotypical monkeys, but I take your point about the squirrel monkeys.
    4. Bushbabies I know are in a completely different branch to tarsiers but to the (relatively) uneducated visitor they would do the job, plus they are much rarer than bushbabies and (generally) more endangered.
    5. Grey mouse lemurs are interesting as well, but again due to their size would probably be missed by the majority of visitors.
    6. Orang-utans have been covered in MagpieGoose's Borneo-themed area, and I did want to leave them, as well as common chimpanzees, open to other exhibit creators.
    7. The playground is a good idea, but I do want it to be a strictly primate exhibit so the tree shrews (which can be used in all sorts of other exhibits) and the colugos (kept nowhere in captivity to my knowledge) would be a no. For visitor interaction I already have examples of enrichment that the public can try for themselves available.

    If I did want to take on all of your suggestions here would be my choices:

    Hamadryas baboon (Papio hamadryas) (better than gelada as can replace the lack of trees with plenty of rocks and maybe even the ruins of an abandoned Arabian fort)
    Grey-legged night monkey (Aotus griseimembra)
    Bolivian squirrel monkey (Saimiri boliviensis boliviensis)
    Senegal bushbaby (Galago senegalensis)
    Goodman's mouse lemur (Microcebus lehilahytsara) (easy to import from Madagascan collections plus more endangered than grey mouse lemurs)
    Sumatran orang-utan (Pongo abelii) (again, wouldn't have orang-utans but fits better so that MG can keep the Bornean ones in his exhibit :) )
    Playground yes (play forest, similar to RavotAapia in Ouwehands and particularly large jungle gyms such as in Apenheul, Vallee des Singes and Twycross), colugos and tree shrews no.

    Thanks for the feedback!
     
  14. Zygodactyl

    Zygodactyl Well-Known Member

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    @ShonenJake13: I still think Geladas are the single most interesting group of Old World monkeys due both to their diet and to the sexual selection of bright bald patches on their chest, which parallels the evolution of breasts in humans. And as a kid, I hated how the baboons all seemed to be mooning me, and liked the geladas a lot better. By contrast drills and baboons have always seemed pretty similar to me, except that drills always seemed angry to me. I assume you'll have scrubby habitat for some species; grassland in that context wouldn't look so jarring.

    Otherwise, nice choices. If you can get mouse lemurs from Madagascar, it would awesome if you could bring in a sportive lemur too.

    Good thing you called dibs. I probably would have done Madagascar just because I'm so obsessed, and now I have to be creative. So here's my proposal.

    Pollination Station
    There will be three walk-in exhibits and one exhibit building, in addition to smaller exhibits between them.

    Loquacious Lories

    This will be a fairly typical lory-feeding exhibit, except that each lorikeet will have information and a range map in signs throughout the aviary.

    Beetles, Bees, and Butterflies
    A walk-in butterfly exhibit which will also include skippers, hawk moths, possibly other diurnal nectar-feeding moths, carpenter and bumble bees, and pollinating beetles. Signage will provide information by taxa (eg butterflies, skippers, hawk moths, bees..., as well as ID charts to each species).

    Flowers and Feathers
    This aviary will include birds which are not lorikeets, eat nectar, and can be housed together. I imagine that hummingbirds, sunbirds, sunbird-asities, as might Hawai'ian honeyeaters if I could get some and they didn't need a smaller aviary to breed, and honeyeaters if I could find non-aggressive species. I will have bird information mostly by family, with range maps of the distributions of families (with darker colors for a greater number of species or genera in a location), so people can see that--for example--sunbirds are mostly Africa, honeyeaters are mostly Asia and Australasia hummingbirds are exclusive to the Americas, and sunbird-asities are unique to Madagascar.

    Mammals by Moonlight
    This will be a nocturnal house, which will include nectar-eating bat species from the Old and New World, possums, and kinkajous. Exhibits will be illuminated to the level of a full moon unless this seems to cause disruptions to their sleep schedules.

    Smaller exhibits would include birds and insects that can't be in mixed-species open exhibits (friarbirds are aggressive, a lot of insect pollinators are parasitic), possibly some reptile pollinators, and an actual station where people can hand-pollinate crops that are hand-pollinated.

    I'm not going to try to list all the species I might want (since in a lot of cases, it would depend on what's available. I'm also not going to include species which I really want think obtaining is extremely unlikely due to the attitudes of the New Zealand government and USFWS (tui and bellbird, most Hawai'ian honeycreepers, golden white-eye). Star marks species not in zoos AFAIK, which is almost all of them. For things like hummingbirds, friarbirds, most sunbirds, and most insects, I'd look at what's available from zoos first. And while I want a striped glider other than the sugar glider, I'm not particular about which species and would take a sugar glider in a pinch.
    1. Blue carpenter bee*
    2. Texas hawk moth*
    3. Crow honeyeater*
    4. Wattled-smokey honeyeater*
    5. Bonin white-eye*
    6. Fire-tailed sunbird*
    7. Purple-throated sunbird*
    8. Yellow-bellied sunbird-asity*
    9. Honey possum*
    10. Feathertail glider
    11. Caver nectar bat*
    12. Moss forest blossom bat*
    13. Cuban flower bat*
    14. Orange-nectar bat*
    15. Kinkajou
     
  15. DragonDust101

    DragonDust101 Well-Known Member

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    Wait, what? three exhibits? if they are all in one building it's okay, but is the building specifically the "Pollination Station", its okay
     
  16. DragonDust101

    DragonDust101 Well-Known Member

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    @ShonenJake13 , I don't want to be a letdown, but Primatopia is seemingly less and less possible to me now, along the lines of the Sumatran Tiger Family tree. Gorillas, Mandrills, Drills, Bonobos, and huge amounts of other primates? This is all in one building, on lots of "Monkey Islands", Which have been known to drown the occasional small monkey who falls in and drowns. This would be a huge investment for any zoo, even more than an Indoor Jungle. It's in Taxonomic Order standing ( Which has become obsolete over the years ). I believe that if zoos are going to conserve species and educate the community, We need to step away from "Monkey Houses," "Feline Pavillions" and "Reptile Worlds. Instead, they need to illustrate ecosystems, and how they impact the environment.
     
  17. DragonDust101

    DragonDust101 Well-Known Member

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    You know what I think would be cool? an exhibit that illustrates the Siberian Tiger Re-Introduction project, with Siberian Tigers, ( who are genetically extremely similar to Caspian Tigers) alongside stuff like Wild Boar, Brown Bear, Fox, Saiga, and Deer. or, for Western China.
     
  18. pachyderm pro

    pachyderm pro Well-Known Member

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    I agree about Primtopia. Don't get me wrong a collection of that calabur would be outstanding, but, 3 Acre gorilla island? A lot of what was proposed would cost a insane sum.
     
  19. jayjds2

    jayjds2 Well-Known Member

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    Ah, thanks for posting that. I hadn't really worked on it too much but I got a decent amount done today.

    So far I have a tentative species list. I will be expanding my "claim" a bit, so to say: I'll also be including animals from the Comoros, Mauritius, Rodrigues, and perhaps the Aldabra atoll. So far I've broken the exhibit into these geographic regions:

    Comoros Islands
    Tsingy de Bemaraha National Park
    Lac Aloatra
    Sofia River Floodplain (likely to change)
    Spiny Forests of Southern Madagascar (may become a more specific region)
    Mauritius and Rodrigues

    I'll likely end up with a few more areas, as I know very little about most of the animals on my species lists. I've been basing it off of the lemurs so far, and I'll probably have to accommodate for some of the smaller species I picked. Speaking of which- I picked species that are either established in captivity already or can be imported with ease. A few that are in captivity (such as sickle-billed vanga) I did not include because their population is simply not viable. I'll leave it open for discussion which species with few holders that I'll include. For example, I plan on including blue coua- as far as I'm aware, only one institution has them, but they are breeding and in good numbers.

    Any feedback before I get farther along would be appreciated :).

    @Zygodactyl: I really like your concept. Most zoos have a pollination exhibit of some sort, but they don't ordinarily have more than honey bees. I'm not sure how feasible it'd be to acquire all those species, though.
     
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  20. Zygodactyl

    Zygodactyl Well-Known Member

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    Four buildings which are all part of one exhibit. However since I wrote that I learned that sunbirds and hummingbirds are usually aggressive towards other bird species, so one aviary for most non-lorikeet pollinators is looking even less plausible, even aside from the large number of species not in zoos I wanted to include.

    You didn't specify one building in the OP, and that strikes me as a rather odd criteria for what constitutes an "exhibits." Different buildings let you display different things which may be part of one theme. As an example, the Amazon exhibit at the Miami Zoo includes a small walk-in aviary, a reptile house, a waterfowl pond, and a a harpy eagle cage which extends over the walk and comes with a camera focused on the eagles' nest. Around the edges are cages for species that need to be housed on their own but can be outside in Miami. The pond and buildings both have distinct names, but they're part of one Amazon exhibit clearly demarcated by a looping trail.

    Likewise, I understood Primatopia to be a mix of islands and enclosures, not one building. The San Diego Zoo has a somewhat similar exhibit (however without using islands), so it seems doable to me.

    AFAIK it's still possible to import birds from Madagascar to countries outside the European Union relatively easily. And the selection of Malagasy birds in captivity is basically limited to vasas, lovebirds, and a couple species of coua AFAIK, which limits you on the bird front.
     
    Last edited: 23 Nov 2016