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Zoos in Europe vs USA

Discussion in 'General Zoo Discussion' started by Arizona Docent, 13 Oct 2019.

  1. Arizona Docent

    Arizona Docent Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    The lengthy and enjoyable thread from @snowleopard found here Snowleopard's 2019 Road Trip: Netherlands, Belgium, France & Germany has sparked an interesting discussion on the differences between zoos in Europe and zoos in the United States of America. I think it is worth discussing in a thread of its own. I have been to perhaps a dozen and a half European zoos in England, Scotland, Spain, France, Switzerland, Austria, Germany (though just one tiny indoor place there). I have been to nearly one hundred zoological institutions in the USA spread out over twenty or so states. Here are my observations based on my own visits and the remarks from the thread referenced above.

    First the disclaimer: these are generalizations and clearly there will be exceptions and there will be some European zoos that fit the criteria of American zoos and vice versa. I have also not been to hundreds of zoos and my European experience is particularly limited, so I look forward to input and corrections from the more well traveled. I may also refer to USA as America which is common practice and means no disrespect to my Canadian and Mexican neighbors.

    FOOD: This is one area where my experience tells me Europe beats out America. The European zoos I have been to that are big enough to have a cafe have a good food selection, usually with indoor seating. (The only exception that pops into my mind is ZooBotanic Jerez, the only zoo I have been to in Spain, which has mediocre food). In America the quality is all over the place but there are far too many zoos that only offer hot dogs and hamburgers and the like. It's not just small places either, there are some otherwise outstanding zoos with deplorable cafes. Sometimes they don't even offer indoor seating.

    MAPS: As was intensely debated on the aforementioned thread, several zoos in Europe charge extra for a zoo map. In America zoo maps are always (and I mean always) free. I am with @snowleopard on this one, charging for a map is absurd. In my mind it would be like going to a restaurant and being charged extra for a napkin. It puts a bad taste in my mouth right at the start and makes me begin my zoo day with a negative attitude.

    SMOKING: A lot more Europeans smoke than Americans (the only thing I don't like about visiting Europe). Many European zoos still allow smoking on the grounds. Here in USA most zoos have banned smoking altogether. The few (and it is very few these days) that still allow it usually have designated smoking areas.

    DOGS: Some European zoos allow people to take their pet dogs to the zoo while no American zoo allows it that I know of. The one exception is service animals, where U.S. federal law requires all establishments (zoo or otherwise) to make an accommodation. Many Americans use this loophole to take their (non-service) pet places by buying a harness that says service animal, even though it is not a service animal.

    EXHIBITS: It is hard to make a generalization about exhibit quality, because there is such a huge range of quality on both sides of the Atlantic. I think there is a parallel in that for Europe it varies by country and for America it varies by state. @snowleopard has detailed (painfully so) the horrid conditions of some of the so-called zoos of Wisconsin. Places like that do not (and could not) exist in California or Arizona (among other states). Likewise (and I am out of my element here) I think that some of the substandard zoos of Spain and Italy could not exist in Sweden or UK.

    COLLECTIONS: Here I will ask for input as I am still out of my element. As a cat fanatic I do know there are more cat species in Europe, the only one that America has and you don't is black-footed cat (I think). I also think there are more sheep and goats in Europe, with Tallinn firmly in mind as I say this. America may win however when it comes to reptiles? And for birds I don't know, is it a tossup? Help please.

    PARKING: @snowleopard described in humorous detail his parking angst. The zoos I have visited in Europe all had parking lots (American term) or car parks (British term), so maybe it's just an issue in Belgium and the Netherlands? (I usually travel by train in Europe so it's not an issue for me regardless). Whether or not you have to pay extra for parking seems to be a regional thing on both sides.
     
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  2. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    Indeed, and even this has only been the case for a handful of years.

    European collections certainly have a significantly higher level of owl diversity - and birds of prey in general, methinks.
     
  3. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Smithsonian charges for zoo maps but since the zoo itself is free I think it's a bit more acceptable. Georgia Aquarium denied me a map, though, and said I had to take a photo of the main map and use that instead. I found this particularly odd considering the service desk had a pile of disposable maps right out front.

    European collections are a bit better for birds, especially in the birds of prey department, but the US wipes the floor with Europe on herps.

    ~Thylo
     
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  4. Great Argus

    Great Argus Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    That loophole is increasingly attempted everywhere, although I can't say I ever recall seeing a service animal at a large facility. If I recall rightly, a few of the bigger zoos have kennels at the entrance where non-service animals can be left. Also, although the service dogs must be allowed in, I have seen zoos prohibiting them from entering certain areas like free-flight aviaries and Australian walk-throughs with wallabies and such. I don't blame them for doing so either. Do the zoos in Europe that allow it have similar restrictions?

    I think certain facilities make this more difficult to ascertain, thinking of the Dallas World Aquarium, San Diego, and Walsrode saying that. They all hold species not often seen elsewhere.

    I very much agree after rummaging through Zoochat working on the birds of prey in North America thread. A great number of notable species are either lacking or very rare in US collections, such as Lammergier, Verreaux's Eagle, European Griffon, White-tailed Eagle, Eurasian Hobby, Pel's Fishing Owl, etc. The only notable species I can think of the US has that Europe does not is California Condor.
     
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  5. TinoPup

    TinoPup Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Smithsonian charges $5 for a map ;)

    My experience of Euro zoos is limited to the UK years ago, but they all seem to have booklets and things you can buy for a couple of pounds. The only ones I've seen like that in the USA have been a couple that have large, thin books for $10+.

    The bigger zoos in the USA tend to try and make exhibits look like they're from the animal's native country, while in the UK the focus generally seems to be just having a nice exhibit.
     
  6. Arizona Docent

    Arizona Docent Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Five bucks for a map at Smithsonian? That is surprising (and somewhat distressing). It's also a bit ironic considering the zoo is free.
     
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  7. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Junk food (or at least fast food in local variations, may it be sausages, noodles with tomato sauce, lángos etc.) also prevails in European zoos, thanks to families with small kids being the main group of visitors. While there are good dining options (like Leipzig or Zürich), there's also Duisburg. It all depends on the restaurant contractor.

    I don't think so. American zoos, at least some of the major ones, house an impressive variety of reptile species and can rely on a larger number of local species. The housing itself, however, often falls short in regard to enclosure size, husbandry demands and naturalism - with the exception of some American zoos in the southern states, where the local warm weather allows for outdoor husbandry conditions most European zoos can only dream of. However, so far I have only seen a very limited number of American zoos having outdoor reptile enclosures with the same focus on naturalism and quality such as, say, Innsbruck or Nockalm.
    Yes.
    The fact that Americans try to smuggle in their pet dogs as service animals indicates that the demand to bring your dog along might be there...;)

    Quite a few American species are currently not or only very rarely displayed in European zoos, may it be the black-footed ferret, pronghorns, coyotes, the fisher, the black-tailed jack rabbit, the Texas blind or the coastal giant salamander. Some exotic species that are more or less common in American zoos (like Jamaican fruit bat, bontebok or gerenuk) are absent from European zoos.
     
    Last edited: 14 Oct 2019
  8. Arizona Docent

    Arizona Docent Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    @Batto When @Great Argus said the only notable species in the US is California Condor, I am pretty sure he was referring specifically to birds of prey and not to animals in general. However your observation regarding North American animals in general is certainly true.

    When I said Americans buy fake "service animal" harnesses to sneak their dogs into places, I was not referring to zoos per se. In fact I very rarely see dogs (service animal dogs) at American zoos. I was referring more to people taking them to stores or even airports. A coworker of mine bought one of those harnesses so she could take her dog with her to the grocery store.
     
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  9. TinoPup

    TinoPup Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    I think they're doing it to try and push for paperless/get people to use their app. I like collecting the maps, but there's no way I'm paying that much for one.

    Regarding dogs, which ones can you think of that have kennels, @Great Argus? The only one I know of is Wildlife Safari in Oregon, which I utilized, but it was a rather awful set up.

    Directly from the ADA frequently asked questions:
    There were several at Smithsonian last weekend.
     
  10. TinoPup

    TinoPup Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Here's the kennel at Wildlife Safari. You have to buy your own lock (which you can purchase in the gift shop, of course) and there's no supervision, just a sign in/out sheet.
     

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  11. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Or rather, what the zoo staff thinks what the visitor associate with the respective native country...which has led to plenty of fake Asian temple ruins, African pseudo-"tribal" villages, "crashed" safari planes / jeeps in European zoos as well. With the egyptian cobra exhibit at Staten Island Zoo as one of the most infamous examples. ;)
     
    Last edited: 14 Oct 2019
  12. Great Argus

    Great Argus Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    I meant more in the respect of, do the European zoos that allow it also prohibit service animals from entering free-flight aviaries, lemur walkthroughs, etc.
    I have seen that a lot as well Arizona Docent, usually it's not too hard to tell when it's not actually a service animal. Emotional support animals get interesting, cats I understand, but I've heard of even parrots and peafowl being claimed as "emotional support animals."

    I was referring to birds of prey in particular, building off TLD's and Thylo's points. Somehow it's not surprising that North American animals are rare in European zoos just as European animals are rare here. Though we do share a few species across both continents which seem to be fairly present in zoos; Red Fox, Moose (or Elk), Rough-legged Hawk, and several of the duck family come to mind.
     
  13. Arizona Docent

    Arizona Docent Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    When I volunteered at Reid Park Zoo, someone had an emotional support rabbit that they would take through the zoo on a leash!
     
  14. TinoPup

    TinoPup Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Legally any animal can be an emotional support animal. But ESAs don't have any access rights and aren't covered by the ADA at all, they are not service animals.They fit under the Federal Housing Act, which allows them to be kept in housing that otherwise prevents animals, and the Air Carrier Access Act, which allows them to fly with their owner without being charged a fee. With both, the owner must have some sort of mental health diagnosis, and species and/or individual animals can be banned if they're going to significantly impact a company's insurance or ability to run. A lot of what Delta's been doing this year isn't legal.
    Only dogs and miniature horses can be service animals. The owner must be legally disabled, and the animal must be able to perform tasks that mitigate that disability. The animal must also be well behaved, and establishments are within their rights to ask for the animal (but NOT the person) to be removed if the dog is barking a lot, being a nuisance, etc.
     
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  15. TinoPup

    TinoPup Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Yeah that's not legal, unless the zoo otherwise allows pets in
     
  16. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Yes, they do. And the American "emotional support animal" concept hasn't (thankfully) found its way to Europe (yet).
    Rough-legged hawks, btw, appear to be mainly kept in zoos of the former Eastern Bloc (except for one Finnish zoo); I can't think of any West or South European zoo keeping the species.
     
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  17. MRJ

    MRJ Well-Known Member 15+ year member Premium Member

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    It can be extremely difficult for the traveller to find good food anywhere in America, fast food with fries predominates and the quality of that food is poor. I have even been told by Americans that the quality of McDonalds in Australia is noticeably better than that in America. That is not to say that there is not good food in America, it is hidden away. Having said that I visited three zoos in Europe last (northern) summer and only the food in Zurich managed to impress me, the other two were as bad as any North American zoo.

    Hear, hear and not only in zoos but many public places. I was amazed how far behind Europe was in smoking regulations.
     
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  18. Great Argus

    Great Argus Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Can't say it much better than that. Even most of our sit down chains are so-so, and the most common side is probably still fries. If you truly want good food, you have to really look for it. (And often pay much more, though not always.)
    Per zoos specifically, my common experience is that you get the same food as elsewhere, but at an upcharge. Rather a pity really, but I suppose that's also how they keep the restaurant running. I find San Diego Zoo interesting in that they have multiple restaurants within the zoo, although I can't speak to the quality of the food or pricing.
     
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  19. Jogy

    Jogy Well-Known Member

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    Speaking about restaurants at zoos for me Pairi Daiza is most impressive as they have in the meantime 14 restaurants fully embeded in the respective 'worlds' and ranging from simple fast food and kiosque style to really high quality (and price) Chinese, French or seafood restaurants.
     
  20. Hvedekorn

    Hvedekorn Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    One thing I've noted is that European zoos have better collections of North American animals than the opposite. A few North American species are commonplace in European zoos - e.g. American bison, black-tailed prairie dog, raccoon (at least for now since the EU ban will all but exterminate them from zoos), and wood duck - while North America doesn't seem to have any European animals that are anywhere near as common, except if the species in question lives in both North America and Europe.

    Of course this may not mean European zoos have better collections in general - after all there's a lot of animals from other continents, and I find that North American zoos have a slightly larger focus on their native animals than European zoos do (European zoos often ignore their native animals altogether unless it's specifically a native-species zoo).
     
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