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Zoos in Europe vs USA

Discussion in 'General Zoo Discussion' started by Arizona Docent, 13 Oct 2019.

  1. Crowthorne

    Crowthorne Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    Just because I happened to attend a talk at work yesterday about museum funding (disclosure: I have worked in UK museums for over a decade), central government funding of national museums, although significant, now amounts to no more than 40% annual income for any single national museum since the funding cuts after the recession (before the recession, central government funding could be as high as 80% annual income). At present, national museums will be generating 60% of their own annual income, including through donations, bequests, Friends/Membership schemes, charges for exhibitions (both on-site and touring), shop sales etc. As central government funding will undoubtedly keep falling, the percentage of self-generated funds will continue to increase.

    Compared to the regional and city museums, nationals have it easy. Regional and city museums have suffered an even bigger drops in government or council funding, and don't attract the same level of attention as regards donations or benefactors. They used to receive a good boost from the Renaissance in the Regions funding programme for regional museums, but this was stopped around 8 years ago, and no new source of funding has materialised.

    I am less certain of the tax status for museums, but as most are registered charities, they are probably taxed similarly along those lines.
     
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  2. Maguari

    Maguari Never could get the hang of Thursdays. 15+ year member Premium Member

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    A side issue really but there is a major problem for me* with SDZ's exhibit and it is this: Side-Blotched Lizard Signage - ZooChat

    If you have an actual interest in herps** it would be really useful to know what actual species 'side-blotched lizard' refers to without having to Google and hope there isn't more than one..!




    *if more than one in a thousand visitors to the exhibit even noticed I'd be surprised, but there's a principle here!

    **and people interested in animals certainly ought to be a group that zoos consider..!
     
  3. FunkyGibbon

    FunkyGibbon Well-Known Member

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    When I saw Ned's post I immediately thought "He's been visiting British zoos and not Eastern European ones".

    I surmise that the public pressure on British zoos to replace old and outdated exhibits, as well as the financial capability to do so, has been fairly constant for quite a long time, whereas in Eastern Europe both of those phenomena have materialised more recently. Perhaps.

    On the other hand, maybe it's something more cultural, since I'd say you are also more likely to find a real clanger of an exhibit in what was formerly West Germany than you are in the UK as well (despite Germany being in general far more of a 'zoo' country).
     
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  4. EsserWarrior

    EsserWarrior Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    I couldn't agree more with your statement about the lack of proper herp care in zoos in Europe and the United States. I've some really good herp exhibits, but I've seen more really bad herp exhibits. Just using Henry Vilas Zoo as an example, the offer their leopard geckos overhead heat, without even giving them some sort of slate/rock area to absorb the heat to allow the leopard geckos to absorb the heat properly. (I don't think they regulate their heat sources either, I can never manage to find a thermostat. Plus, if there was one in the exhibit they have for them you'd probably see it. They're kept in a weird glass cylinder.) They MAY have an undertank heater somewhere, but I can't tell for sure.
    They've also kept in Cane Toad in one of the smallest Exo-Terras you can find. It literally took up half of the floor space on its own. I've also seen this happen with a Box Turtle. Thankfully both of these species have sine been moved.
    Their Gila Monsters don't look to good either. It's extremely obvious that one is superior to the other, with one being plump and large, with the other being smaller and extremely skinny.
    The most surprising thing I've seen is Henry Vilas keeping a young, twiggy Brazilian Rainbow Boa with a massive adult BCI.

    On the other hand, Henry Vilas has some high-quality reptile exhibits too. Their Dart Frog vivariums are great, with awesome Amazon Tree Boa and Eastern Mas. exhibits as well. Their new Rhinoceros Iguana exhibit isn't too bad either.
     
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  5. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    While I'm the last one to pretend that West German zoos are flawless, a quick look at the photos in the UK gallery reveal several "clanger exhibits" as well, and not just in smaller establishments such as Borth Animalarium or Exotic Zoo. So I wouldn't cast any first stones here. ;)
     
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  6. Andrew Swales

    Andrew Swales Well-Known Member

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    Zoos are separated from farm-parks, museums, galleries, sporting venues and all other leisure and retail outlets; and are uniquely subject to a crippling tax called the Community Infrastructure Levy, which although originating centrally, has yet to be imposed by many/most Local Authorities.
     
  7. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    We all know there is a certain hierarchy of sympathy (up to outright "Speciesism", to paraphrase this overused slogan of animal rights activists) within the different species displayed at zoos. Also among zoo people, who are mostly interested in large mammals (and to a lesser degree, birds). Even on this forum of zoo nerds, you'll find way, way more threads or photos involving elephants, tigers and giant pandas than coral cobras, sturgeons or sea pens.
    [​IMG]
    That's just the way most humans are. However, this does not mean that the husbandry demands of the latter should be ignored or that they should be considered less worthy - on the contrary! You can do your part by learning more about them and distributing this knowledge to others to improve their situation.
    As a keeper and exhibitor of such "neglected creatures", this gives me the great opportunity to teach people more about hitherto unknown creatures. Inspiring people for gorillas is easy. Inspiring people for coral cobras? Challenge accepted!
     
  8. Clem

    Clem Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    @Batto : you're right, most of the people can imagine mammals suffering (even birds) but not fishes and reptiles. For me, this a lack of knowledge, but I'm happy that someone like you can glow up the issues in the forum. One thing that shock me about the non-adequate exhibits for reptiles is the fact that there is several books and websites about them. Struggling to breed species that are well documented is just negligence.
    The tiny boxes used for snakes in the Mersus Emergo at Pairi Daiza are obvious examples of bad husbandry, but a few parameters are trickier to spot for novices.

    The lack of interest in non-mammal species is for me caused by the size. Big animals catch the attention, and are easier to spot.
     
  9. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Thanks Clem!
    Mersus Emergo might actually be a good example of how non-mammals are often inserted in the "multi million dollar exhibits" - as more or less easily replaceable accessory parts, with less focus on their actual husbandry needs.
     
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  10. EsserWarrior

    EsserWarrior Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    This is so true! I'm sure some facilities look at things like leopard geckos and ball pythons as cheap species that they can easily replace when they die due to bad husbandry. Valuing the looks of the enclosure more than the actual well-being of the animals inside.
     
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  11. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    @Batto, since you are probably the person on this forum best placed to answer this question, what is an adequate enclosure size, for, for example a King cobra?

    It also strikes me when I go into terrariums how little space the snakes in particular get. I've seen 5 poison dart frogs get more space than 4 king cobras...
     
  12. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    A good question, and a controversial topic among venomous snake keepers. Depending on the individual size and character of the specimen, the king cobra exhibits at Hamburg and Kolmården are what I would go for in a public display in regard to size and structure. Bigger is always an option, of course. ;)
     
  13. Andrew Swales

    Andrew Swales Well-Known Member

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    A snippet - UK law requires an enclosure to be greater in either width and/or depth than the length of the snake outstretched, regardless of whether the animal ever does this. Does that contribute anything?
     
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  14. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    It's a rather rough rule of thumb (also used in other countries) that I suspect was invented to make life easier for bureaucrats and animal right activists since both of them usually know very little about snakes. It does not take the actual behavior and thus activity of the snake species in question into account. An arboreal species (such as the eyelash viper) might benefit more from a taller enclosure while more geobiontic species such as blood pythons might do well in an enclosure with the aforementioned size.
     
    Last edited: 15 Oct 2019
  15. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Oh yeah we always like bigger... I'm thinking some kind of 40 acre rainforest exhibit with a large lake and live food... Nothing like that for enrichment :)

    On a serious note, I really like both exhibits (although, as always, more space and more water...

    So for a king cobra, ideally, without getting to immense proportions, 4x2x2 is great...

    Yes... but I have seen some pretty tiny British anaconda or python exhibits which wouldn't even fit half of the snake outstretched...
    Sad that some rules are really not carried through into actions...
     
  16. Andrew Swales

    Andrew Swales Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I am sure it is used for ease of interpretation - often to disguise lack of knowledge on the part of an inspector ? This does not of course apply to private breeders/owners who are largely un-regulated, and often seem to keep their animals in much smaller plastic boxes.
     
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  17. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Ah, animal farm, such a wise book... :)
     
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  18. Andrew Swales

    Andrew Swales Well-Known Member

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    It is not a 'rule' as such, more an interpretation as Batto said above - but an enclosure such as you describe would fail a UK Zoo Licence inspection (in our area at least) and lead to immediate closure of that part of the Zoo (or potentially the whole of it) under the newly tightened version of the ZLA introduced in 2019.
     
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  19. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Or, at least in some cases of dedicated enthusiasts, keep them under conditions that put major zoos to shame. And, mirabile dictu, manage to breed them successfully. ;)
     
  20. Andrew Swales

    Andrew Swales Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely! - and, in many specialist areas, not just reptiles...
     
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