Anteaters, Armadillos, and Sloths in North America

Hello all, I'll cut right to the chase. This list will be for holders of anteaters, armadillos, sloths, and tamanduas in the United States, Canada, and Mexico. I took a lot of inspiration from @IndianRhino's Primates of North America thread, so thank you for that.

I got this information from Zoochat species lists, the facility's website, and its social media pages. There are some animals from specific facilities that I wasn't quite sure were there in 2023, so I will highlight them with a bold ?.

From my research, facilities typically say they either have three-banded armadillos or southern three-banded armadillos, with a few facilities labeled as Brazilian but I am not sure. So for the time being I'll group all the three-banded armadillos together, and put an asterisk next to facilities that mark them as southern, and 2 asterisks if they mark as Brazilian

Note: The way I rank by country is United States, Canada, and Mexico (0.0.0) Species with 50+ holders will be put under the spoiler tag to keep things more organized.

Anteaters and Tamanduas:

Giant Anteater (Myrmecophaga tridactyla) -- 68 Total Holders (67.1.0)

Spoiler: Giant Anteater Holders

USA-
Abilene Zoo
Alabama Safari Park
Alexandria Zoological Park
Audubon Zoo
Bergen County Zoo
Brevard Zoo
Brights Zoo
Bronx Zoo
Brookfield Zoo
Caldwell Zoo
Chattanooga Zoo
Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
Connecticut's Beardsley Zoo
Dallas World Aquarium
Dallas Zoo
Detroit Zoo
Disney's Animal Kingdom
Franklin Park Zoo
Fresno Chaffee Zoo
Greensboro Science Center
Greensville Zoo
Gulf Breeze Zoo
Happy Hollow Park & Zoo
Hattiesburg Zoo
Houston Zoo
Jacksonville Zoo & Gardens
John Ball Zoo
Keystone Safari
Lee Richardson Zoo
Lincoln's Children's Zoo
Little Rock Zoo
Los Angeles Zoo & Botanical Gardens
Mesker Park Zoo & Botanical Garden
Metro Richmond Zoo
Montgomery Zoo & Mann Wildlife Learning Museum
Naples Zoo
Nashville Zoo
North Florida Wildlife Center
Palm Beach Zoo
Pana'ewa Rainforest Zoo
Phoenix Zoo
Pittsburgh Zoo & Aquarium
Potawatomi Zoo
Potter Park Zoo
Reid Park Zoo
Roger Williams Park Zoo
Rolling Hills Zoo
Sacramento Zoo
Saint Louis Zoo
San Antonio Zoo
San Diego Zoo
San Francisco Zoo
Santa Ana Zoo
Santa Barbara Zoo
Sedgwick County Zoo
Six Flags Great Adventure Wild Safari
Smithsonian National Zoo
Sunset Zoo
Tanganyika Wildlife Park
The Birmingham Zoo
The Buffalo Zoo
Turtle Back Zoo
Virginia Safari Park
Wildlife Safari?
Zoo Boise
Zoo Miami
Zoological Wildlife Foundation Miami

Canada-
Miller Zoo

Northern Tamandua (Tamandua mexicana) -- 4 Total Holders (0.0.4)

Mexico-
Aluxes Palenque
Parque Zoológicos de Centenário
VallaZoo?
Zoológico Miguél Álvarez del Toro

Southern Tamandua (Tamandua tetradactyla) -- 53 Total Holders (52.1.0)

Spoiler: Southern Tamandua Holders

United States-
Aggieland Safari
Alabama Gulf Coast Zoo?
Austin Aquarium
Big Joel's Safari
Brandon's Promised Land Zoo
Brights Zoo
Brookfield Zoo
Charles Paddock Zoo
Cincinnati Zoo & Botanical Gardens
Columbian Park Zoo
Columbus Zoo & Aquarium
Creation Kingdom Zoo
Dallas Zoo
Denver Zoo
DeYoung Family Zoo
Discovery Cove Orlando
El Paso Zoo
Electric City Aquarium & Reptile Den
Great Bend-Brit Spaugh Zoo
Hillcrest Park Zoo
Houston Zoo?
Kentucky Down Under Adventure Zoo
Los Angeles Zoo & Botanical Gardens
Lupa Zoo
Memphis Zoo
Miller Park Zoo
Moody Gardens
Nashville Zoo
Phoenix Zoo
Point Defiance Zoo & Aquarium
Potawatomi Zoo
Reid Park Zoo
Roger Williams Park Zoo
Rosamond Gifford Zoo
Saint Louis Aquarium at Union Station
San Antonio Aquarium
San Antonio Zoo
San Diego Zoo
San Diego Zoo Safari Park
Smithsonian National Zoo
Staten Island Zoo
Summerfield Zoo
Sustainable Safari at Maplewood Mall
The Toledo Zoo
Timbavati Wildlife Park
Turtle Back Zoo
Washington Park Zoo
Wellington Conservation Center
Wild Florida
Zoo Miami
ZooTampa at Lowry Park
Zoological Wildlife Foundation Miami?

Canada
Miller Zoo

 

Armadillos:

Big Hairy Armadillo (Chaetophractus villosus) -- 6 Total Holders (6.0.0)

USA-
Adventure Aquarium
Ararat Ridge Zoo at Ark Encounter
Branson's Wild World
Columbus Zoo & Aquarium
Rosamond Gifford Zoo
The Creature Conservancy?

Screaming Hairy Armadillo (Chaetophractus vellerosus) -- 21 Total Holders (21.0.0)

USA-
Brookfield Zoo
Busch Gardens Tampa Bay
Cincinnati Zoo & Botanical Gardens
Electric City Aquarium & Reptile Den
Frank Buck Zoo
Franklin Drive Thru Safari
Gladys Porter Zoo
Greensboro Science Center
Mesker Park Zoo & Botanical Garden
Museum of Science, Boston
Nashville Zoo
Omaha's Henry Doorly Zoo & Aquarium
Reid Park Zoo
Smithsonian National Zoo
Sustainable Safari at Maplewood Mall
Tanganyika Wildlife Park
The Virginia Zoo
Wildlife Safari
Wildlife World Zoo, Aquarium, and Safari?
Zoo Atlanta
ZooWorld Panama City Beach

Three-Banded Armadillo (Tolypeutes sp.) -- 114 Total Holders (112.2.0)

Spoiler: Three-Banded Armadillo Holders

Adventure Aquarium
Akron Zoo*
Alabama Gulf Coast Zoo
Ararat Ridge Zoo at Ark Encounter*
Bee City Zoo
Boonshoft Museum of Discovery*
Bramble Park Zoo*
BREC's Baton Rouge Zoo*
Brights Zoo**
Busch Gardens Tampa Bay*
Cape May County Park & Zoo
Chattanooga Zoo
Cheyenne Mountain Zoo*
Cincinnati Zoo & Botanical Gardens*
Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
Columbian Park Zoo
Columbus Zoo & Aquarium**
Como Park Zoo & Conservancy
Dallas Zoo
Discovery Cove Orlando
Downtown Aquarium Denver
Downtown Aquarium Houston
El Paso Zoo
Elmwood Park Zoo*
Flying Fox Conservation Fund
Frank Buck Zoo*
Great Bend-Brit Spaugh Zoo
Great Plains Zoo & Delbridge Museum of Natural History
Greenville Zoo
Hawk Creek Wildlife Center*
Henson Robinson Zoo
Houston Zoo?
Idaho Falls Zoo at Tautphaus Park
Lake Superior Zoo*
Lee Richardson Zoo
Lehigh Valley Zoo*
Lincoln's Children's Zoo*
Lincoln Park Zoo*
Little Rock Zoo
Louisville Zoo*
Lupa Zoo
Memphis Zoo*
Metro Richmond Zoo
Miller Park Zoo
Milwaukee County Zoo*
Minnesota Zoo*
Mississippi Aquarium
Montgomery Zoo & Mann Wildlife Learning Museum
Naples Zoo
Nashville Zoo
National Aviary*
North Carolina Zoo*
OdySea Aquarium
Oglebay Good Zoo*
Oklahoma City Zoo and Botanical Garden
Omaha's Henry Doorly Zoo & Aquarium*
Oregon Zoo
Palm Beach Zoo
Peoria Zoo*
Philadelphia Insectarium and Butterfly Pavilion*
Philadelphia Zoo
Phoenix Zoo*
Pittsburgh Zoo & Aquarium
Plumpton Park Zoo
Point Defiance Zoo & Aquarium*
Potawatomi Zoo
Potter Park Zoo
Pueblo Zoo
R Lazy J Wildlife Ranch?
Riverbanks Zoo & Gardens*
Roer's Safari
Roosevelt Park Zoo
Ross Park Zoo
Saint Louis Zoo
San Antonio Aquarium
San Antonio Zoo
San Diego Zoo*
San Diego Zoo Safari Park
San Francisco Zoo
Santa Ana Zoo
Santa Barbara Zoo*
Santa Fe College Teaching Zoo*
Saving Wildlife International
Scovil Zoo
Seneca Park Zoo*
Smithsonian National Zoo*
Southwick's Zoo
Staten Island Zoo
Tanganyika Wildlife Park
The Birmingham Zoo*
The Buffalo Zoo*
The Creature Conservancy
The Florida Aquarium
The Living Desert Zoo & Gardens
The Living Planet Aquarium*
The Maryland Zoo in Baltimore*
The Toledo Zoo?
The Virginia Zoo?
Topeka Zoo
Utah's Hogle Zoo
Utica Zoo
Washington Park Zoo
Wildlife Discovery Center
Wildlife Learning Center
Wildlife World Zoo, Aquarium, and Safari
Wonders of Wildlife National Museum and Aquarium
Woodland Park Zoo
Zoo Atlanta*?
Zoo Boise*
ZooMontana*
ZooTampa at Lowry Park

Canada-
Edmonton Valley Zoo
Zoo de Granby*

Six-Banded Armadillo (Euphractus sexcinctus) -- 35 Total Holders (34.1.0)

USA-
Abilene Zoo
Animal Adventures Family Zoo & Rescue Center
Animal World & Snake Farm Zoo
Austin Zoo & Animal Sanctuary
Blank Park Zoo
Brandon's Promised Land Zoo?
Brights Zoo
Camel Safari Las Vegas
Como Park Zoo and Conservancy
Dallas Zoo
East Texas Zoo & Gator Park
Flying Fox Conservation Fund
Fort Worth Zoo
Fresno Chaffee Zoo
Garlyn Zoo Wildlife Park
John Ball Zoo
Lake Superior Zoo
Memphis Zoo
Metro Richmond Zoo
Naples Zoo
Niabi Zoo
Philadelphia Zoo
Racine Zoo
Roger Williams Park Zoo
Sacramento Zoo
Saint Louis Aquarium at Union Station
Saving Wildlife International
Sustainable Safari at Maplewood Mall?
The Reptarium
The Virginia Zoo
The Zoo in Forest Park & Education Center
Wildlife World Zoo, Aquarium, and Safari?
Wildwood Wildlife Park & Safari
Zoo Knoxville

Canada-
Safari Niagara?

Nine-Banded Armadillo (Dasypus novemcinctus) -- 36 Total Holders (34.0.2)

USA-
Abilene Zoo
Audubon Zoo?
Austin Aquarium
Back to Nature Wildlife Refuge
Bearizona Wildlife Park
Blank Park Zoo?
Brandywine Zoo?
Brevard Zoo?
Buttonwood Park Zoo
Capron Park Zoo
Central Florida Zoo & Botanical Gardens
Cosley Zoo
Denver Zoo
Erie Zoo
Jacksonville Zoo & Gardens
Lehigh Valley Zoo?
Louisiana Purchase Gardens & Zoo?
Oatland Island Wildlife Center
Oklahoma City Zoo & Botanical Garden
Omaha's Henry Doorly Zoo & Aquarium
Peace River Wildlife Center
Phoenix Zoo
Roger Williams Park Zoo
San Angelo Nature Center?
San Antonio Aquarium
San Antonio Zoo
St. Augustine Alligator Farm Zoological Park
Staten Island Zoo
The Academy of Natural Sciences at Drexel University
The Living Desert Zoo & Gardens
The Texas Zoo
Utah's Hogle Zoo
Woodland Park Zoo
ZooAmerica

Mexico-
Aluxes Palenque
VallaZoo

 

Sloths:

Brown-Throated Sloth (Bradypus variegatus) -- 1 Total Holder (1.0.0)

USA-
Dallas World Aquarium

Hoffmann's Two-Toed Sloth (Choloepus hoffmanni) -- 35 Total Holders (35.0.0)

USA-
Animal Adventures Family Zoo & Rescue Center
Ararat Ridge Zoo at Ark Encounter
Brookfield Zoo
Busch Gardens Tampa Bay
Buttonwood Park Zoo
Capron Park Zoo
Cheyenne Mountain Zoo
Como Park Zoo & Conservancy
Connecticut's Beardsley Zoo
Dallas World Aquarium
El Paso Zoo
Gladys Porter Zoo
Henry Vilas Zoo
Indianapolis Zoo
Lincoln's Children's Zoo?
Lincoln Park Zoo
Milwaukee County Zoo
Montgomery Zoo & Mann Wildlife Learning Museum?
Omaha's Henry Doorly Zoo & Aquarium
Palm Beach Zoo
Peoria Zoo
Philadelphia Zoo
Pittsburgh Zoo & Aquarium
Pueblo Zoo
Riverbanks Zoo & Gardens
Rosamond Gifford Zoo
Saginaw Children's Zoo
Saint Louis Zoo
SeaWorld Orlando
St. Augustine Alligator Farm Zoological Park
Staten Island Zoo
The Birmingham Zoo
The Virginia Zoo
Topeka Zoo
Zoo Atlanta

Linnaeus's Two-Toed Sloth (Choloepus didactylus) -- 165 Total Holders (159.6.0)

Spoiler: Linne's Two-Toed Sloth Holders

USA-
Abilene Zoo
Alabama Gulf Coast Zoo
Alabama Safari Park
Alexandria Zoological Park
Alligator Adventure
Animal Adventure Park
Audubon Zoo
Austin Aquarium
Babby Farms
Bayou Wildlife Zoo
Bee City Zoo
Bergen County Zoo
Boonshoft Museum of Discovery
Bramble Park Zoo
Brandon's Promised Land Zoo
Branson's Wild World
Brevard Zoo
Brights Zoo
Bronx Zoo
Camel Safari Las Vegas
Cameron Park Zoo
Cape May County Park & Zoo
Carson Springs Wildlife Conservation Foundation
Catoctin Wildlife Preserve & Zoo
Central Florida Zoo & Botanical Gardens
Cincinnati Zoo & Botanical Gardens
Claws 'N' Paws Wild Animal Park
Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
Columbian Park Zoo
Columbus Zoo & Aquarium
Dallas Zoo
Denver Zoo
Detroit Zoo
DeYoung Family Zoo
Discovery Cove Orlando
Downtown Aquarium Denver
Downtown Aquarium Houston
Electric City Aquarium & Reptile Den
Ellen Trout Zoo
Elmwood Park Zoo
Flying Fox Conservation Fund
Franklin Drive Thru Safari
Franklin Park Zoo
Fresno Chaffee Zoo
Garlyn Zoo Wildlife Park
Gatorland Orlando
Greenville Zoo
Gulf Breeze Zoo
Hattiesburg Zoo
Henson Robinson Zoo
Hesperia Zoo
Honolulu Zoo
Houston Zoo
Indian Creek Zoo
Indianapolis Zoo
Jenkinson's Aquarium
Jungle Island
Kansas City Zoo
Lake Superior Zoo
Lake Tobias Wildlife Park
Leesburg Animal Park
Lehigh Valley Zoo
Lion Country Safari
Living Treasures Wild Animal Park Laurel Highlands
Los Angeles Zoo & Botanical Gardens
Louisville Zoo
Lupa Zoo
McCarthy's Wildlife Sanctuary
Memphis Zoo
Metro Richmond Zoo
Minnesota Zoo
Mississippi Aquarium
Monkey Jungle
Monterey Zoo
Montgomery Zoo & Mann Wildlife Learning Museum
Moody Gardens
Naples Zoo
Nashville Zoo
National Aquarium in Baltimore
National Aquarium
Niabi Zoo
North Carolina Museum of Natural Science
North Florida Wildlife Center
OdySea Aquarium
Oglebay Good Zoo
Oregon Zoo
Out of Africa Wildlife Park
Pana'ewa Rainforest Zoo
Pete's Safari
Phoenix Zoo
Pine Grove Zoo
Plumpton Park Zoo
Pocono Snake and Animal Farm
Point Defiance Zoo & Aquarium
Potawatomi Zoo
R Lazy J Wildlife Ranch
Red River Zoo
Roger Williams Park Zoo
Roosevelt Park Zoo
Roscommon Park Zoo
Ross Park Zoo
Sacramento Zoo
Safari Wilderness
Saint Louis Aquarium at Union Station
Salisbury Zoo
San Antonio Aquarium
San Antonio Zoo
San Diego Zoo
San Diego Zoo Safari Park
San Francisco Zoo
Santa Ana Zoo
Scovil Zoo
SeaWorld San Diego
Sharkarosa Wildlife Ranch
Shell Factory & Nature Park
Six Flags Discovery Kingdom
Six Flags Great Adventure Wild Safari
Smithsonian National Zoo
Southwick's Zoo
Stone Zoo
Summerfield Zoo
Tanganyika Wildlife Park
Tennessee Safari Park
The Buffalo Zoo
The Creature Conservancy
The Florida Aquarium
The Living Planet Aquarium
The Reptarium
The Toledo Zoo
The Virginia Zoo
The Wild Animal Park
Tiger Safari Zoological Park
Tiger World
Timbavati Wildlife Park
Tulsa Zoo
Turtle Back Zoo
Utah's Hogle Zoo
Virginia Safari Park
Wellington Conservation Center
Wild Adventures Theme Park
Wild Florida
Wildlife Discovery Center
Wildlife Learning Center
Wildlife World Zoo Aquarium, and Safari
Wildwood Wildlife Park & Safari
Wilstem Wildlife Park
Wonders of Wildlife National Museum and Aquarium
Wright Park Zoo
Yellow River Wildlife Sanctuary
York's Wild Kingdom
Zoo Boise
Zoo Knoxville
Zoo Miami
ZooTampa at Lowry Park
ZooWorld Panama City Beach
Zoological Wildlife Foundation Miami

Canada-
African Lion Safari
Edmonton Valley Zoo
Miller Zoo
Montreal Biodome
The Toronto Zoo
Vancouver Aquarium

 

Wildwood Wildlife Park keeps Southern Tamandua.

Jack R. Facente Serpentarium keeps Six-banded Armadillo.

 

Also at Charles Paddock, Miller Park, and since you include Mexico Africam Safari. National, Wildlife Safari, Six Flags Great Adventure, and Sacramento no longer have them.

High probability that most or all of these are Screaming Hairy.

As far as is known, all of these will be Southern.

Nine-banded at Bronx, Philadelphia, ASDM. Confirmed at Louisiana Purchase and Brevard. Lehigh had as recently as last September, Brandywine in Aug, Fort Worth, Erie, Tampa, Denver as well.

Sloth IDs probably questionable at most non-AZA.

Also a note, it's Branson's Promised Land not Brandon's, and putting "The" in front of most places is a little confusing if you're not expecting it. Only exception is The Living Desert, to keep it differentiated from Living Desert.

 

A few notes:

- Buffalo Zoo is completely missing from your list. It holds Giant anteaters, Linne's Two-Toed Sloth, and Southern Three-banded Armadillo.

- I'm skeptical that Hawk Creek Wildlife Center keeps an Armadillo. When I visited, I saw no evidence of this species being kept there, so it's either a false listing or a species kept behind the scenes.

- I have Southwicks Zoo listed as having Hoffmann's Sloth, not Linne's. Do you have a source that it's the latter?

- One change I'd recommend is indicating when a species is kept behind the scenes. This is especially important with a taxa such as xenarthrans where many zoos use them as ambassador animals. I did a double-take for a few listing, such as the screaming hairy at BMOS, since I wasn't aware of this species there. Turns out, you are right that they keep the species, it's just a behind the scenes individual. This list would be more useful if any individuals kept behind-the-scenes were indicated as such. The armadillos at Roger Williams and Buttonwood are also kept behind the scenes.

 

Has this been discussed on here before/what's your source on this? I'd like to know about Rosamond Gifford's individual in particular so that I can update my lifelist if the zoo's signage is indeed an incorrect identification.

 

Peace River has armadillos? Not currenly I don't think. Don't think they're any at Back To Nature either.
Actually, I wonder how many of those Nine-banded Armadillo holdings are bts ambassador animals. Nearly all the zoos on the list that I've been to don't have any dedicated exhibit for their NBAs and a couple of those (Roger Williams, Lehigh Valley) display them very seldomly or only for a few hours. I'd say this might be the case for some of the holders of other armadillo species as well.

 

Buffalo is there, it's confusingly listed as "The Buffalo Zoo" along with several others. That got me too originally.

Big Hairy Armadillo is much less common in zoos to begin with, and identification issues confound the armadillos. Given the last US ZC media reference that is confirmable is from 2006, that says quite a bit too. I don't know for certain that they are or aren't, but it is very likely these are misidentifications. Maybe someone can shed some better light on this.

Nearly all - many of the listed zoos have no reference to the armadillos on ZC at all.

 

Do you know which zoos from that list have a dedicated display for them?

--

Brevard has an exhibit and Roger Williams and Lehigh Valley at least display them sometimes and have/had them listed on their website. I've never actually seen any of these when I visited however.

Peace River and Back To Nature are rescue sanctuaries that didnt have them during visits within the last few months. Either they got a very, very recent non-releasable or whatever they had is just a temporary rehab animals never displayed. I think the CROW center in Sanibel, FL might have a non-releasable with an exhibit @Smaggledagle, though never been so can't confirm.

Audubon, CFZ and St Augustine definitely don't have them on display if they even still have them at all.

 

No idea unfortunately. All of the ones I'm familiar with are bts/education animals.

St. Augustine had them a few months ago per USDA, so presumably bts then.

 

For what its worth, I checked the most recent studbook for screaming Hairy armadillos and neither Rosamond Gifford nor Columbus were listed as holders. The signage at Rosamond Gifford when I was there recently definitely said Large Hairy Armadillo, unfortunately I didn't get a good enough look to get a good photograph (I could see it's shell, but, as armadillos do, it was in its hiding cave).

 

1. Hawk Creek acquired a southern three-banded armadillo in June 2022, which will be used as an ambassador animal.

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2. When doing the two-toed sloths, I mainly had to look through similarities in photos between the 2 different species and see which facility has Linne's or Hoffmann's. As far as I'm aware, from the recent social media posts it looks like a Linne's two-toed sloth, though obviously, I could be wrong on the matter.

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3. A lot of the three-banded armadillos and some of the Linne's two-toed sloths, as well as a smattering of other species are bts. When I update it at a later point I'll add that distinction.

 

That is pretty solid argument that there probably are a few Large Hairy about then, which is interesting.

 

1. I thought Miller Park were in the process of acquiring them, not that they already had them acquired?
2. Alright good to know thanks Great Argus
3. I'll remove the "the" out of some of the places that would create confusion like The Buffalo Zoo instead of just Buffalo Zoo, though for places like The Florida Aquarium or The Virginia Zoo, I'm keeping it there just because you wouldn't know if I am talking about a random facility or the specific facility.

 

The darker hair on the top of the head screams hoffmanni, not didactylus, to me, but I'm really bad at differentiating between the two sloth species so take that with a grain of salt.

 

To me, Hoffmann's two-toed sloths have white fur around the face with a reddish-pink nose while Linne's usually have brown fur surrounding the face with a darker nose. Comparing the Southwick's sloth to a sloth like this one seen below, I think it's a dead ringer for a Linne's two-toed sloth.

 

"The" adds more confusion here as well. Most people on this forum are well enough versed with zoos to know that Virginia Zoo means the Virginia Zoo, and that Florida Aquarium means the Florida Aquarium. These are both well-documented facilities, and "the" makes them show up in an unexpected part of the list, adding confusion. Furthermore, if anyone was confused by seeing "Virginia Zoo" or "Florida Aquarium", all it takes is a small google search to realize zoos exist with those names. Most people on here are smart enough to look up a name for a zoo they're unfamiliar with.

I'll let you use your best judgment on this one. I'm far from an expert in identifying sloths and tend to defer to whatever the zoo signs them as, but if you want to look deeper than that and feel confident in your sloth identifying skills, all the more power to you.

 

Per USDA, Southwick's had 50 Linneaus's in late Sep last year, for whatever that may be worth. They have both species signed per the most recent photos. Very possible the inspector potentially overlooked Hoffmann's if there was a ton of Linneaus's.

That said - I have looked through some USDA and some other documents and as listed here there there are a massive amount of errors in sloth identification. Many zoos are flip-flopped and a fair few even have both.