I’ll put this issue to bed; no the langurs and siamangs don’t rotate outdoors, they have indoors in the same building. The langurs would strip those trees dry of leaves if they were allowed out there probably!
Neither time I said they certainly did Thanks,that is probably why I saw the langurs indoors besides an exhibit labelled Siamang.
The outdoors with the climbing frame is langurs, the one with trees is siamang. The onshow indoors is langurs, the offshow is siamang.
Just got to see today’s comments on twycross, just a few things we are voting on the exhibit in the pics, the gibbon forest exhibit and not the other exhibit they have there which has no relevance to this poll aren’t we ? Not windy and sheltered are two things you really can’t change at twycross, it’s an exposed site so I don’t think they can ever change this with any of there exhibits especially the primates if they allow them to climb high. I get the natural tree thing but don’t think they could do that here in a fence less exhibit with the wind. It would only take a branch to fall over the moat and they would be off again ! As for the indoor exhibit which ok they do inhabit more as most do at twycross humans included and why not, it’s not like there locked in. The indoor for those whom may not know and are voting on the pics is raised so you veiw them at tree top level for want of a better phrase and I often see them feeding from the scatter feeds they do through the roof top of the house, along with the education center and pleasing theaming in the house I would say it wins the indoor hands down. And one more chestnut as appears on these polls quite a bit, they breed
Just to clarify on what enclosure you are voting for exactly. With exhibits like Black Rhinos at Chester where they are interlinked we are counting them all. However, with ones that are completely separate like Twycross judge them separately. I think this is a fair way of deciding what is the Best enclosure for a particular species. If anyone has a better suggestion I am open to ideas moving forward.
If I remember rightly they manage the studbook, and their breeding record is certainly good. ...but I should mention that they’ve issued a studbook wide halt on breeding, which is why both pairs currently still have an adolescent offspring with them. Also if we’re comparing the two horses as it were, Monkey World don’t breed any of their gibbons except the golden-cheeked.
The abject state of Marwell's old Siamang enclosure has been mentioned on this thread, but for what it's worth I believe that their Gibbons did actually breed whilst they were living there. So I'm not sure that breeding record is the best deciding factor for a good exhibit in this case! I voted for Twycross - the Gibbon Forest really impressed me when I visited 2 years ago, especially the indoor bit. And I did see them venture outside when I was there. I just wish that Marwell had included more climbing opportunities in their updated exhibit to go with the good theming and the very good Otter exhibit that sits opposite it!
I think this is fair also as we are voting on a stand alone enclosure not a zoos some times many enclosures for a species in this case you would always have a good and bad enclosure or the zoo wouldn’t have built the good to replace the bad if the bad was already good, if you follow me.
They could actually do a lot to make it more sheltered, such as adding... more & denser foliage of various height (I agree that this would be easier without the moat and the narrowness of the land area) more and denser climbing structures. multiple, small, walled shelters attached halfway up the poles at different angles to block out the wind. Despite looking pretty, which is why I think many people voted for Twycross initially, the gibbon outdoor areas imo are actually rather disappointing due to being on the small and narrow side, having very sparse/minimalist climbing structures and of course being very exposed. The indoor areas are however, excellent. I suspect the outdoor areas would have been of that standard too had the 'animal people' at Twycross had the final say and not the business/marketing people. By that I mean that by having a water moat around each gibbon enclosure in order to form an island, it makes the new exhibit complex look more attractive to the public; more marketable (more £££). Whereas, if the moats around each outdoor area weren't there, they could have made each outdoor area three or four times larger, thus providing much more space for the apes, space for many more climbing structures, more foliage, and maybe even space for a few large trees.
There was critisism about the emptiness of this enclosure previously. Its its main shortcoming. Sometime after that a small ladder contraption appeared in the outdoor area but it really does little to improve how the Siamangs can actually use the enclosure.
The main thing I would have done is site this enclosure on the other side of the zoo- there are far more trees and so a lot more sheltered. Open fields for miles behind Gibbon Forest are the problem there. But of course that doesn't help now...Other apes at Twycross don't suffer this problem (or much less) as the outdoor areas are glass-walled, or in the case of Chimp Eden, sited in a less exposed part of the zoo. I think the comments about the moats etc are all relevant. They've gone with watermoats as the 'pretty' route though we all know they waste a lot of space. Some fast growing trees might help reduce the rather stark appearance of the islands too. I like the indoor areas though.
It is rarely an indication of whether an enclosure can be termed 'good' or 'bad'. Many species will breed under housing conditions we might deem far from ideal provided other needs are met, e.g. good diet, shelter etc. So no, often not a good indicator.
Could some large telegraph pole ‘walls’ , to act as mini strategic wind breaks be installed at a later date, with trees & large shrubbery planted in between?
I think that the Twycross gibbon accommodation is poorly designed. The indoor enclosures are fairly good, I like the height available to the gibbons but I would prefer them to be rather longer (even if that meant they had to be narrower) and I think that the indoor public area is higher (further above ground level) than it needs to be. But the outdoor enclosures are very poor; I visit Twycross infrequently, but the only time I can recall seeing any gibbons outside was when the siamang family was lying on the grass sunbathing and the smallest one played on the lowest belt briefly. Ideally once the site was chosen, the zoo should have immediately planted a double hedge of Lawson cypress around it to provide a permanent windbreak. Perversely, I think that the individual islands are too narrow, if they were wider there would be room to establish some large evergreen shrubs and some fast-growing trees (such as willows) - the little palm trees and shrubs visible in the photo will never provide any proper shelter or climbing opportunities for the gibbons. I realise that Twycross could not provide islands with mature trees like Paignton's, but a mix of shrubs, telegraph poles and webbing straps, like the ape enclosures at Chester, would be much better than those desert(ed) islands.
I do think this has turned out to be something of a 'white elephant' exhibit as a result of those design failings, particularly the windswept location. I agree Willows are fastgrowing, look good and ultimately provide good usage for gibbons, or other primates. Very useful tree for planting in zoos if they aren't there already.
Often on my visits I see the Gibbons either sitting on the floor or hanging from the wire mesh that covers the area. It's a shame because as I said previously, the rest of the area is not bad, with a really good otter exhibit and the longhouse style viewing is good too. Interestingly, during lockdown a video did appear on Facebook showing the two youngest Gibbons being kept in the old Sulawesi crested Macaque indoor housing, apparently to give mum and dad 'a break'.
What is the outside area of the old macaque area used for now? Why can't some horizontal bars & frames (gymnastic parallel bar stylie) be added at Marwells Gibbon exhibit?
No reason that I can think of, except the soft netting mesh mightn't support bars, so frames might be preferable- but its many years since this shortcoming was first raised now.
It is now a kind of garden... don't quote me on this but I believe they use it for school visits and the like. It used to be an island of course but they built a bridge that leads on to it - its closed for general public though. Even with this being the case (and I'm sure that will annoy some people a lot!), I get more frustrated that they have a perfectly good small monkey indoor housing facility that is generally not being used for anything...
I can't for the life of me think where this could be in the zoo... could someone help me out here please? haha
