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Berlin Zoo BIG plans for Zoo Berlin

Discussion in 'Germany' started by kiang, 1 Oct 2015.

  1. kiang

    kiang Well-Known Member

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    Big plans are in the offing for Zoo Berlin over the next few years, they include;

    A new elephant house and enclosure on land across the canal.

    The now former elephant house to be converted for great apes.

    Negotiations have started for a giant panda loan with the Chinese, with new accommodation being built on the site or part of the deer park.

    The lions or carnivore house should see a renovation complete by 2017.

    The rhino house should also see a major facelift.

    Berliner Zoo: Großer Wohnungstausch - Berlin - Bild.de
     
  2. zooboy28

    zooboy28 Moderator Staff Member

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    Looks like it will be a very interesitng time for the Berlin Zoo, although I will be very disappointed if the deer collection is reduced dramatically.

    Elephants in the extension area is an interesting idea, will they be taking over all or just part of it? That area seemed under utilised to me, with the generic Australian and South American exhibits - what is in the Serow enclosure now, the Serow have all died now haven't they?

    Personally I would prefer the zoo to go out of elephants, and therefore give the public more of a reason to visit the Tierpark. Or keep the giant pandas at the Tierpark instead.

    A renovation of the rhino house would not hurt, and modern ape enclosures would be great.
     
  3. Bib Fortuna

    Bib Fortuna Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea to keep just " A Panda".
     
  4. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member

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    According to the trip report written by LaughingDove subsequent to his July 2015 visit to Zoo Berlin, the taxon was still present as of that time.
     
  5. LaughingDove

    LaughingDove Well-Known Member

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    Hmm... I like the sound of modernising... and at the same time, I don't.

    I really don't like the sound of Pandas, waste of time, money, and space in my opinion. If they have to rent something from China, I'd much rather it was Snub-nosed Monkeys.

    I hope the collection isn't reduced too much, but improvements *are* needed.

    (And I did indeed see Serow when I visited in July, two in fact.)
     
  6. Al

    Al Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting news! I guess with the tierpark master plan focusing on African elephants and black rhino, the zoo will build a better exhibit for breeding sauna elephants and the rhino house will be adapted for the tierparks Asian rhino!

    Is there any information on changes to the carnivore house?
     
  7. Loxodonta Cobra

    Loxodonta Cobra Well-Known Member

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    I agree with AI in that with the Tierpark focusing on African pachyderm species, the Berlin zoo wil/may probably be getting the Tierparks asian elephants and indian rhinos. In that case, new enclosures are definitely needed. I think the Berlin Zoo should just go out of elephants all together as the the enclosure looks really bad by today standards, but then again, what would you expect from the most popular zoo on the planet?

    Personally, I'm actually happy that the Zoo will be getting giant pandas for the first time since 2012. For a zoo of such respect and one with the most populace collection on the planet, pandas are the only ABC animals that appear to truly be missing. My response to some of the other comments above about not wanting pandas there is that they are the most popular animals in China and a symbol of conservation, something the Berlin Zoo strides in by having more species than any other zoo on the planet, and participating in studbooks, reintroduction projects and cooperation in supplying other zoos all across the world with animals rarely seen in captivity. Besides, folks probably wouldn't even recognize most other animals from the People's Republic. How many mothers with their children would expect to know what a snub-nosed monkey is?
     
  8. FunkyGibbon

    FunkyGibbon Moderator Staff Member

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    Am I the only read who read this line:

    'A new elephant house and enclosure on land across the canal.'

    to potentially mean new land from the Tiergarten?
    Even though I agree that the current annex over the bridge is a fairly anonymous area, I'm not sure it would offer the elephants any more space. Although a more modern enclosure would offer many other improvements of course.

    All the other improvements sound like positive moves, although I agree that leaving the historic deer exhibits as they are and putting the pandas in the Tierpark instead would make more sense. Maybe management feel the deer area is under used? On my visit it was almost devoid of people despite the rest of the zoo being packed.

    If I'm honest I'd like to see the Rhino house extended into the camelid area behind it. I thought both were some of the ropiest parts of the zoo and the Tierpark has a full set of camelids anyway.
     
  9. temp

    temp Well-Known Member

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    Depending on one's opinion on what equals an ABC, I would add koala, but there have been recent rumous in Berlin (zoo/tierpark) about an Australian section that could include this species. I might feel tempted adding Komodo dragon as a non-Berlin ABC too.
    Regardless, a remarkable zoo and with the proposed updates I suspect it only will get better. Yes, some species will probably be "lost" in the process, but this is countered by the updates to sections where updates are needed.
     
  10. temp

    temp Well-Known Member

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  11. lintworm

    lintworm Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    Is it already known to which part of the hirschrevier (deer area) the pandas would go to. I think there should be enough space available where there are now only some cranes and storks (on the way from the carnivore building to the zebra and okapi) where a proper panda enclosure could be constructed without demolishing the very nice deer houses and without having to compromise on displaying a wide variety of deer.
     
    Last edited: 2 Oct 2015
  12. zoomaniac

    zoomaniac Well-Known Member

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    This is also my opinion. But if it is Knieriem's too...?
     
  13. Bib Fortuna

    Bib Fortuna Well-Known Member

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    Yes, in Opposite of the entrance to the Antelope/giraffe Building. This place is planed for a new panda exhibits since years, so a long time before Knierim.Don't be afraid, the old historic deer houses are protected by law-he can't change or destroy them. Hopefully the deer"collection"will be reduced.

    First- they are too many animals in this zoo and too less space for them.

    Second-there are many, many deer at the Tierpark, where they have much more space than at the Zoo.

    Zoos are economic business, they have to get in money to keep alive.Money they get only from the visitors. But with 15 species of deer it is impossible to make the vistors happy-so the zoos need Pandas, elephants and co. for that. So I can understand it for these reasons, why Knieriem wants to reduce the giant"deer collection" for pandas.
     
  14. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member

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    Problem is, Kniereim has already made it clear he wishes to get rid of the majority of those, too :p
     
  15. Al

    Al Well-Known Member

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    Is this the case? I think the master plan seemed to have a lot of deer species still there? Has anyone looked at the whole species loss/gains if the plan was fully realised?
     
  16. lintworm

    lintworm Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    No, but that is also because what has been released so far is too vague to do that... The only thing that seems certain is that the number of big cats will be reduced, for the rest it is mostly speculation....
     
  17. Bib Fortuna

    Bib Fortuna Well-Known Member

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    If other animals profit from it, I can live with it without any problems. And-attention-my Outing-I LIKE pandas:):) So I would like to see them back in germany, altough their welfare makes absolute no sense...of course China sends them out to make profit, they do not need the few pandas born outside of china, because they breed them by themselfs like brown bears.
     
  18. Al

    Al Well-Known Member

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    The following I rather badly translated from the tierpark master plan pages. It seems to have a large number of deer species.

    Ok, so I have tried my best to translate the species list given for each area, there may be some mistakes-

    Asia-Himalaya
    • Snow leopard • Mixed: Golden takin + Goral • Red Panda • Mixed: Marco-Polo-Sheep + Markhor
    • Mixed: Mishmi-Takin + tufted deer • White-lipped deer • Blue sheep
    South-east Asia
    • Mixed: Malayan sun bear + Binturong + Vietnamese-Sika ?? • Mixed: Sambar + Malayan tapir
    • Gibbon • Water buffalo • Orang utan
    Mandschurei
    • Amur- Tiger • North-Chinese Leopard • Dhole • Mixed: Altai- wapiti + Siberian musk deer
    • Stellar’s sea eagle
    Steppe
    • Mixed: Bactrian camel + Przewalski horse + Kulan + goitered gazelle • Mixed: Bactrian deer and urial • Bobak marmot • Corsac fox • Pallas cat
    Africa
    North Africa
    • Gelada? • Mixed: Barbary deer and macaques • Mixed: Mhorr gazelle + Addax
    • Mixed: Somali-Wild ass + Barbary sheep + ostrich • Sudan cheetah
    Madagascar
    • Lemurs • Fossa
    Savannah
    • Mixed: Cape buffalo + Waterbuck + Rothschild giraffe +Grevy’s-Zebra + gerenuk +White-tailed gnu
    • African elephant • Spotted hyena • Aardwolf • Lion • Mixed: Banded mongoose + bush hyrax
    • Patas monkey • Mixed: Black rhino + Gerenuk
    South Africa
    • Mixed: Mountain zebra + Mountain reedbuck+ grey rhebok?? • Honey badger
    • Brown Hyaena • Jackass penguin
    Dschungelwelt
    Alfred-Brehm-Haus
    • Sumatra-Tiger • Java-Leopard • Asiatic golden cat • Goodfellow tree kangaroo
    • Komodo dragon • Philippine crocodile • Malayan sun bear
    South America
    Altiplano
    • Vicuna • Spectacled bear • Mixed: Guanaco + rhea + Mara + Giant anteater • Chacoan peccary
    • Maned wolf
    Amazon
    • Red howler monkey • Bush dog • Jaguar • Two-toed sloth • Manatee • Giant otter
    • Marmosets and Tamarins • Anaconda • Tamandua • Margay
    Australia
    Outback
    • Mixed: Yellow-footed rock wallaby + wallaroo • Mixed: Grey kangaroo + Swamp wallaby
    • Koala • Tasmanian devil • Lorikeets • Emu
    Schloss
    Schloss Friedrichsfelde
    • Free ranging animals: Cranes+ Swans + Pelicans + Peafowl
    Europa
    Märchenwald
    • Wild cat • Wolf • hare & hedgehog • owls • Wisent • Great bustard •Dalmatian pelican
    Boskett
    • European native animals
    North America
    Prairie
    • Mixed: American bison + Wapiti + Pronghorn • Prairie dog • Puma • American badger
    • Roadrunner
    Taiga
    • Wolverine • Ring=necked pheasant • American black bear • Mixed: Raccoon and skunk • Moose
    Tundra
    • Mixed: Musk ox + artic fox • Polar bear • Fur seal • Sealion • Rocky mountain goat
    Kiekemal
    Farms of the world
    • Alpaca• Llama•Moorland german sheep• Poitou donkey• Skudde – german sheep breed • Vietnamese pot-bellied pig• Valais blacknose sheep•Valais blackneck goat, Somali Sheep• Watussi cattle• Indische Hängeohrziege – goat breed• Mongolan sheep• Dwarf Zebu• Reindeer
    Vogelwelt
    Big aviary
    • Chile pelican, Chilean flamingos• Ibis e.g.- white, scarlet, , rosette spoonbill • Parrot e.g..- Blue and gold macaw, scarlet macaw, green-winged macaw• Waterfowl eg. .Black-necked swan, comb duck • Australian pelican• Cockatoos e.g .Galah, Major Mitchell's cockatoo, sulphur crested cockatoo •Javan green peafowl, Lady Amherst’s pheasant
     
  19. kiang

    kiang Well-Known Member

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  20. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member

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    Funny how a lot of the changes to Tierpark and Zoo - both current and future - are allegedly to make the collections more profitable, yet Knieriem has shackled himself to the cost of the extortionate panda-loan scheme......

    I just hope neither of the new pair die of constipation this time round :p and that if they do, the staff notice a little quicker this time!