I wasn't criticising anyone who voted 2-1 Jersey, I understand your reasoning to an extent, but for me Paignton's vastly superior species list and not vastly inferior encloses give it a win
I have been to Jersey but not Paignton so my view may be kind of skewed. Paignton's enclosures aren't bad, just Jersey is renowned for enclosure quality and wind on that front. Also semi-wild golden lion tamarin, emperor tamarin and silvery marmosets are amazing to watch Jersey zoo's collection isn't huge and so it wouldn't get far if we judge it on that. However, the work they do (in and ex-situ) is incredible for lemurs, tamarins and marmosets. They have the large Pied tamarin colony in Europe, helped establish Alaotra lemurs and Aye-aye in captivity and have the only black lion tamarins in Europe. Plus all the ex-situ conservation with LBJ is really important So I'll go 2-1 Jersey for conservation and superior enclosures. Paignton et. al. gets a point for larger collection
Thanks to @Dylan for mentioning Jersey's conservation efforts. Primates is arguably their largest conservation focus, and they are a key breeding centre for marmosets and tamarins. For Golden lion tamarins in Brazil, they support field efforts to support them in the wild as well as ensure the good husbandry if they enter captivity when they are rescued from the wild. In this way, they act almost as a moderator for Brazilian zoos, making sure they are holding them in good conditions. Jersey zoo also provide training for staff protecting Western lowland gorillas and Sumatran orangutans in Western Africa and South-East Asia. They collaborate heavily with the Sumatran Orangutan Conservation Programme. Ex-situ, they have kept a gorilla breeding group for 40 years and have successfully bred many rare primates. I will see what Paignton has to offer in this respect and then come back to you with that .
Whitley, being the studbook holder for Sulawesi crested macaques, of course have a large focus on these and support Tangkoko forest, a large tract of rainforest in Sulawesi, one of the last strongholds of this species, as well as also supporting the other species found in this area, namely the Moor, Booted, Tonkean and Heck's macaques. These species are all either, vulnerable, endangered or critically endangered. They also promote a more sustainable method or farming palm oil in South-East Asia and support Omo forest in Nigeria (100km from Lagos), indirectly helping native guenon and colobus populations, though the main focus of the project are forest elephants. Having seen what both had to offer in this regard, and given I personally find the conservation aspect of a zoo very important since it is one of, if not the, main objective of a modern zoo, I reckon Jersey earns a draw and perhaps even a slim win. The species list, while I personally find it relatively unimportant unless there is a clear winner (which there was in this case), rocked the tie in WPT's favour. However, both had uncommon species and Jersey had arguably the better species, with important (breeding) populations of Sumatran orangutans, Western lowland gorillas and Black lion tamarins as well as Aye ayes. Therefore this was a rather shady win for Paignton. However, in terms of enclosures, Jersey's consistent excellence thinly won it for me, and the last Diana monkey enclosure photo almost tipped it back in favour of WPT, but not quite, making the score a slightly favourable to Paignton 1-1. The conservation efforts seemed more engrained in Jersey and it seemed to be more a part of the zoo than in WPT. Furthermore, they have sustained breeding groups of several primate species for 40 years or more, allowing a more consistent and sustained breeding population, doing more to boost captive numbers. It is also important to note that primates are a large part of Jersey's establishment and therefore of Jersey's conservation programmes, so there is a definite focus that we I do not see so much in Paignton. In conclusion, I think I am going to vote 2-1 in favour of Jersey, of course keeping an eye out for any extra information that could change my vote.
I'm going 2-1 Whitley because of the impressive species lost and enclosures, but Jersey get the bonus for their stunning conservation efforts, and for having multiple aye-ayes and black lion-tamarins.
Because @CGSwans wanted us to get a bit better at getting our votes in on time and so shortened the period that the poll is open
Sorry to interrupt your musings, but I noticed this thread because it's about my local zoo and possibly my favourite zoo, and I see it features some of my photos of both While this is totally irrelevant, I'd just like to say that the human primates working at Jersey are exceptional. From the moment you enter the zoo through to the keepers, the presenters, the catering staff - everybody - they are all enthusiastic and welcoming. They are very willing to share their knowledge, the talks are interesting and questions are answered openly. They have got customer care down to a fine art and that along with their ethos, enclosures and animal care make it a zoo you want to return to, even though it's a hassle getting there. I'll go away now!
Sadly , I've never been to Jersey zoo or Paignton zoo but I'm going to have to vote in favour of Jersey (though thumbs down from me for them having meerkats and short clawed otters amongst their otherwise superb collection of endangered species). Ultimately I'm biased though because a good many of the colleagues I've had over the years were trained at Jersey at the DESMAN course and because I've seen firsthand the excellent work that the Durrell trust and particularly Dominic Wormell does with supporting ex-situ efforts with primates here in Brazil.
Oh yes, I saw your post in the Favourite monkey thread detailing how you had seen Black lion tamarin conservation firsthand
I was looking on your list of primates at Jersey and thinking "where the hell is the black lion tamarins?" and then I noticed "golden-rumped lion tamarin" . Honestly, I'll never get used to using this name. I think it is possibly the most useless common name for the species as its defining feature that distinguishes it markedly from the other Leontopithecus monkeys is not its golden coloured a** but its purely black pelt. Anyway, just thought I'd add that, lol.
