I'm so glad there's even more confirmation of this! As I've said, with more acreage than any metropolitan zoo I know of, it's unconscionable for them not to put that use for Asian elephants. Small zoos simply don't have the space, and the Bronx has not only that, but expert scientists and medical staff. You keep after them, Thylo! Or someday in the not-so-distant future, they may have to make room in the extinct animal graveyards for elephas maximus maximus.
Indeed. And while I know they can't use much of the forested space for anything, certainly an area such as the old enclosures behind Birds of Prey would make for a nice spot for a larger elephant complex. Certainly year-round viewing and the potential for breeding would certainly bring in more visitors and go right along with their plans for working with endangered species both at the zoo and in the wild. And not to be technical but Bronx's elephants at E. m. indicus. Aaaand now possibly going against their plans for properly working with endangered species both at the zoo and in the wild, it seems Bronx now has a male ReticulatedXBaringo Giraffe:/ I'm hoping he's not for breeding but I can't see why else he'd be there. It'd be a huge shame if they broke their record of breeding pure Baringos nearly every year. ~Thylo
Are there pure Baringos present in US collections? I thought Reticulated and Rothschild's/Baringo were being maintained as a single population because of unclear pedigree (I can't think of an other reason, as the Rothschild's population number is low enough to warrant an IUCN listing). I know many zoos still list their giraffes as being of one of these two subspecies or the other (up until relatively recently, at least, San Diego maintained groups of all three subspecies held in the US, with Rothschild's and Reticulated at the Park and Masai at the Zoo, but from the most recent species lists I've seen, it looks like this has changed; the Wilds here has in the past indicated that it held all three subspecies, but I'm no sure what its current holding is). I had seen a copy of the Antelope/Giraffe TAG's RCP online, but I can't find it now. Anyone have any more information that can shed some light on this?
This dicussion reminds me on a funny story: A couple of yaers ago I've saw a full adult, phantastic looking Rothschild bull in an Us-Zoos .So I told to the keper"He,'I've never seen such a wonderful specimen of that subspeices". He was laughing about that and told me, that the father of this animal, born at that zoo, was a reticulated giraffe, but the mother was a Masai giraffe.... That's the day I lost my faith in the exist of a"Rothschilds subspecies", and now I agree with the keepers at that zoo that Rothschild giraffes are only hybrids, because reticulated and masai giraffe share one habit and therer are mixed herds of them. By the way-the Rothschild giraffe was never found in greater numbers in the wild... I have no idea, if the Us-Zoos seperate both, european zoo does to save the"endangerd"Rothschild Giraffes...
LOL I was trying to be all encompassing, since Happy is from Thailand, but of course, you're right that all mainland Asians are indicus, even outside India. Sorry! Why would anyone have bred a reticulated x baringo in the first place? Ive seen many fewer baringos out there in zoos, but there are surely enough that cross-breeding sub-species is not necessary?
Apparently there's a new Asian short clawed otter pup in Jungle World Otterly Awesome Parents | Wild View
Bronx has always maintained a pure herd of Baringo Giraffes and, afaik, most of the animals in the US labelled as Baringos are pure but all Reticulateds are hybrids. I was under the impression the two were managed separately. ~Thylo
Seems the animal's found on the Malaysian Peninsula are Sumatrans actually. Or so I've been told. Not sure how far their range extends, though. CLARIFICATION: I'm not suggesting Happy is a Sumatran, I was speaking generally. Anyone aware of which part of Thailand she's from, though? ~Thylo
While a Retic x Masai might look like a Rothschild, pure Roths are not hybrids. They are up to 650,000 years separated from Retics and 1.1 million years separated from Masai. Roths/Baringo however are probably identical to Nubians.
there are some (few) pure Rothschild's and reticulated in the USA but most are either hybrids or are of unknown origin. Neither is kept as a pure bloodline in the USA because of this. Only the Masai have a large enough known bloodline in the USA to keep them as a pure population.
Interesting and such a shame. Kind of pointless to keep a hybrid population going, too. Didn't know about the Reticulated, though. Any idea of where the pure ones are? ~Thylo
there was at least one import a few years back direct from Africa (by San Diego Wild Animal Park perhaps? I'll look it up). I think it was later dispersed. At a complete guess I would say individuals from that import are still alive but they would have been mixed with other hybrid individuals for breeding.
That's so odd to me. Keeping and breeding a hybrid population is pretty worthless beyond having a giraffe to show to guests (which I imagine is the purpose as it certainly wouldn't be conservation). With such large pure populations of Baringo and Reticulated Giraffes in Europe (the later being to the point to where culled have taken place) certainly it wouldn't be too difficult of a move to import well represented bloodlines over to the States to create pure populations of one or both of the species? ~Thylo
it was Busch Gardens, imported 25 reticulated giraffes from Kenya in 1984. They had 18 giraffes already, which they moved to other zoos before the pure animals arrived. I just had a look at their website too, and they say they have reticulated giraffes - so they may all still be pure there.
I've heard of that import but had thought they had all died out by now. Makes me wonder how pure the ones I saw at Philadelphia are considering they look a lot like Reticulateds and not so much like hybrids. ~Thylo
with a little more looking, it seems the only pure reticulateds in the USA are at Busch and the SDWAP (I think the latter came from the former).
I have no idea. The studbook only says Thailand. I only remember what country she's from, because she was one of the 7 elephants imported together in 1971 and given the "7 Dwarfs" names. Grumpy, a female, used to be at the Bronx Zoo as well. Sneezy is in Tulsa. Bashful and Dopey were still with the George Carden Circus as of 2010. Doc and Sleepy, died, Sneezy within a year of arrival and Doc in 2008 at the Bowmanville Zoo in Canada where he was known as Vance.
