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Cetecans in captivity poll

Discussion in 'General Zoo Discussion' started by Norwegian moose, 16 Feb 2013.

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Can cetecans be kept in captivity ?

  1. No cetecans can be kept in captivity

    9 vote(s)
    16.4%
  2. All cetecans can be kept in captivity, and the shows do not need to be educational

    3 vote(s)
    5.5%
  3. All cetecans can be kept in captivity, but the shows must be educational

    7 vote(s)
    12.7%
  4. Only the smaller cetecans can be kept in captivity, and the shows do not need to be educational.

    11 vote(s)
    20.0%
  5. Only the smaller cetecans can be kept in captivity, but the shows must be educational

    25 vote(s)
    45.5%
  1. Norwegian moose

    Norwegian moose Well-Known Member

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    I do not know if we have had a poll on this before. But here is a poll about whales in captivity. We certanly have videly ranging opinions on this subject. Some think that no cetecans at all can and should be kept in captivity. Some think that all cetecans can be kept in captivity, and the shows do not need to be educational. Some think that all cetecans can be kept in captivity, but the shows must be educetional. Some think that only the smaller cetecans can be hold in captivity, but the shows do not need to be educational. And some believe that only the smaller cetecans can be kept in captivity, and the shows must be educetional. And so on, what do you think, vote on the poll, and discuss underneath if you have any opinion on this.
     
  2. Parrotsandrew

    Parrotsandrew Well-Known Member

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    As I was brought up admiring cetaceans at Flamingo Park Zoo in the 1960s and 1970s I have to vote in favour - those were the good old days as far as I am concerned, although I'd admit zoos had a lot to learn about keeping Dolphins and small Whales and plenty of mistakes were made. As Geoffrey Schomberg said in "The Penguin Guide to British Zoos" "replacements are necessary at regular intervals in most zoos where they are kept." Ironically the animals were doing very well indeed when the remaining British Dolphinaria closed.
     
  3. stacey101

    stacey101 Well-Known Member

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    absolutely no cetaceans can be kept in captivity
     
  4. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member

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    I think some cetaceans can be kept in captivity if they're a smaller species kept in a large and deep enclosure with other cetaceans of the same species and plenty of things to keep them entertained and enriched. The shows also have to be both enriching and educational.

    By the way, nice to see back online Stacey, haven't seen you on in a long time.

    ~Thylo:cool:
     
  5. stacey101

    stacey101 Well-Known Member

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    I know right? :(
    My drunk friends got at my computer early last month and got a virus that nortons didnt pick up. Only just got it fixed :(
     
  6. azcheetah2

    azcheetah2 Well-Known Member

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    I think the question more should be "should they be kept" more than "can they" because obviously they can. And I don't think they should be. Unfortunately, the ones who've been in captivity for most of their life and the ones born in captivity can't be returned to the wild so they're "stuck". As for shows, I think they should be educational, but they never will be except when a whale or show dolphin has a calf and they have the "meet the new baby" kind of show.
     
  7. zooboy28

    zooboy28 Moderator Staff Member

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    What a bizarre notion, of course shows can be educational without calves. There are many ways to send key messages to visitors about cetacean biology, ecology and conservation in a show, although some zoos do not make much effort to make their shows educational.
     
  8. azcheetah2

    azcheetah2 Well-Known Member

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    The only thing "bizarre" here is the fact that you misunderstood/misread what I'd written. I said they won't be EXCEPT when there's a calf. Meaning, they choose not to have educational shows except when there's a new baby. I never said it wasn't possible. I KNOW shows can be educational without new calves. They just don't do them. They choose to have entertaining shows instead because they know it draws crowds. Sheesh.
     
  9. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member

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    zooboy28 was quite correct in what he posted. You failed to phrase your post in an accurate fashion, it was not a matter of misunderstanding or misreading. You said shows "never will be" educational "except when a whale or show dolphin has a calf", which is patently ridiculous.
     
  10. Javan Rhino

    Javan Rhino Well-Known Member

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    I put that smaller cetaceans can be kept, and shows don't necessarily have to be educational - I think that while educational shows are a benefit, the most important aspects are safety and stimulation.
     
  11. zooboy28

    zooboy28 Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks Chlidonias, I thought that was what I was reading :D
     
  12. zooboy28

    zooboy28 Moderator Staff Member

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    I think that without an educational aspect, there is no justification for keeping cetaceans.
     
  13. Javan Rhino

    Javan Rhino Well-Known Member

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    I disagree to an extent, but agree to another extent. I think there are two exceptions to the idea there's no justification:

    1) If an animal is a rescue that cannot for one reason or another be re-released. In my opinion, shows help keep the animal stimulated. It is a benefit to be educational, don't get me wrong, but for the amount of people that will take any message from it I don't think it is 100% vital

    2) A species is highly threatened. I think captive breeding of Hector's dolphin would be justified, even if it served no educational purpose.
     
  14. Brum

    Brum Well-Known Member

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    I have a question. What qualifies as small? Are we talking dolphins and porpoises? Or are we talking pilot whales, belugas and killer whales?
    If so then I'm torn, as I've only seen one cetacean (that I recall) in captivity and (to my untrained eye) dolphins seem to have a decent life. As for shows, education wins over entertainment but if you can combine the two then all the better.
     
    Last edited: 20 Feb 2013
  15. Javan Rhino

    Javan Rhino Well-Known Member

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    Good question - I would put belugas and pilot whales just about on the safe side, killer whales blur the line a little - certainly drawn there, but I'm never too sure which side of the fence I sit on with those - I'd love to see one, but I think I'd feel a touch uncomfortable if I did [captive].
     
  16. HyakkoShachi

    HyakkoShachi Well-Known Member

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    As I've said before, any animal can potentially be kept in captivity.

    That said however, if I have to take into consideration our current limits both in knowledge of what certain species need and in finance, at this time my line would have to be nothing larger than the largest bull killer whale.

    While cetaceans don't seem to have the human notion of dignity, I prefer to see educational shows and it is slightly upsetting that theme park style of shows bring in the most money.
     
  17. sealion

    sealion Well-Known Member

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    One positive of the more "theme parky" cetacean exhibits is that a wider audience will get to see them. As in, there will be people there who wouldn't pay to visit a zoo but will go see a show to fill in a lunch break while at a theme park and so will get the exposure to the animals anyway (and may come away more interested in them).

    I think it is important that they represent their group of animals in zoos and aquaria so that people get the exposure to them that is required for us as a race to respect and acknowledge their species' etc and so that rescued animals can be looked after but the welfare of the animals should of course also be top priority.
     
  18. ungulate nerd

    ungulate nerd Well-Known Member

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    So I see you think that every Cetacean species should be an InSitu species ???
     
  19. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member

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    are there any cetaceans for which a captive programme has any relevance at all to their conservation?

    For cetaceans in-situ is undeniably the best option for their conservation. The only possible conservation-minded reason for keeping them in captivity could be one of advocacy.
     
  20. HyakkoShachi

    HyakkoShachi Well-Known Member

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    It depends on the species. Belugas are listed as vulnerable and have a breeding program in North America, they breed at a fairly steady pace as would be expected of cetaceans. Other species currently in small numbers in captivity include Irrawaddy dolphins and Finless propoises, they seem to do fair in captivity and as a species could possibly benifit from an organized international breeding program.

    The breeding of cetaceans on a large scale is fairly new however, so much is still to be learned

    With more common species their main importance to conservation certainly is bringing awareness.

    However, even with widespread species which have large populations, individual stocks can still become decimated. In the future especially, we may have to learn how to reintroduce species that where once common.

    Another way keeping cetaceans in captivity helps is that we learn about them in ways we could'nt in the wild. Having animals in long term care means we can learn more about their needs, allowing increased success in the rehabilitation and release of wild adult individuals in need of rescue.