Dudley Zoological Gardens Dudley Zoological Gardens in 2018

I was just thinking about that.... I'm not saying I don't like the Black lemurs being in that enclosure and all, but I'd much rather see another squirrel species in that area instead of a group of lemurs.

Especially since that area was also home to Red squirrels (Until December last year) and I also remember seeing Prairie Dogs around there too when I was younger. (I don't think they lasted long in the collection though as they were eventually replaced with Guinea pigs)

 

The prairie dogs were further along at the end of the Chimp enclosure opposite in the old mud bath as I called it this was due to the fact the enclosure was always flooded and I couldn't understand why they had put the dogs in the enclosure in the first place would like to see them back in the collection though.
I wonder if they moved the Black Lemurs because they didn't quite get on with the other lemurs in the walk through.
Does any one else think they are missing a trick by not having the large area to the back of the new Lemur exhibit as a enclosure of it's own and if they did what species do you think would suit that area?

 

I just got a reply from Dudley Zoo (via Facebook) about the Prevost's squirrels and this is what they said:

"This was the original plan, but it was more suitable for the black lemurs. We are still going to have the Prevost squirrels and they will be housed elsewhere on the Zoo."

Either way, I still think this enclosure looks much more suitable and large enough for the Black lemurs than it does for squirrels.

 

Yep the original plans were...

• A new £25,000 Prevost’s squirrel exhibit. The two currently empty red squirrel enclosures will be demolished and replaced with a single large exhibit to house SIX males from Chester Zoo.
• A new £15,000 area in Lemur Wood specifically for the black lemurs.

Correct. The female they got from Spain was extremely aggressive towards the other lemurs and during one apoplectic outburst became immune to the electric fence. Hence why they've been moved to a different part of the zoo and are now in a completely enclosed cage.


I really like the look of this new exhibit. Not huge, but looks nice and naturalistic with plenty of climbing opportunities, enrichment and cover. I'd say this is much better than what they were originally planning to do over in the lemur walkthrough, which I think would have spoiled the look of it.

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I also think it's good that, as the studbook holders, Dudley has a separate dedicated exhibit for black lemurs. Hopefully it'll help them continue their breeding record; 2 babies in less than 2 years since the new female arrived.

I've absolutely no idea where the Prevost's squirrel enclosure will now be going.

That'll be the 'old management' then ...

 

That would be the old management who openly admitted that he had no animal knowledge,and that he let the animal team get on with it!

Who are now the in charge and are the current management,so things don't change.

 

Prairie dogs were in the collection in 2009 October if I'm correct then replaced by Gaint British Rabbits for a while before they eventually decided to not use the enclosure in 2010 just past this old enclosure is another unused enclosure to the right just after the Chimp Enclosure this could be used to put a new Orangutan House on and give them half the Chimps outdoor enclosure but I guess under this management thing like this are to big to even think about all they seem to do is extend or refurbish enclosures and must admit under this management not for the better in 95% of cases.
A new management team is required that looks to the future and not just the next day.

 

That's right, I remember a visit to the zoo back in 2009 and when I had noticed both the Cassowary and the Prairie Dogs had gone. Like I said earlier I was young at the time so I did not know much as to what had happened to them yet.

The Cassowary I'm pretty had passed away of old age before being replaced by Rhea (Which remained in their enclosure for a few years before the enclosure was due to be renovated for Blue cranes but instead was eventually transformed into what is now the Kangaroo enclosure).

It wouldn't surprise if the same thing here had happened to the Prairie dogs, judging by a photo in the ZooChat DZG Gallery they did look quite old not to mention they probably decided not to keep them in the collection as they were often overlooked by visitors. (Either that, or they just couldn't get them to breed).

To this day, Prairie Dogs still remain as a past species I'd like to see make a comeback to the Dudley Zoo collection (if it is possible)...

 

And yet you want him back.

Strange that you specifically want him back and no-one else.

Are you still bitter that the old zoo director, a guy you were pals with and who naively told you everything you wanted to know, was suspended from his role, allegedly for reasons to do with the zoo's finances? The same guy who, during the middle of the subsequent investigation, suddenly decided to retire (i.e. run) before the investigation could conclude so that he could not be sacked.

I imagine that the new management are far less open and accommodating towards you. No more tours or endless inside info anymore I'm afraid; something you probably resent.

You're also contradicting yourself...

zoogiraffe logic:
- "The new management is rubbish!"
- "Bring back the old management, the zoo was much better then!"
- "Actually, the new management were really running the zoo during the old management!"
- "The new management is rubbish!"


Does it annoy you that under the 'new management' the zoo is currently better than it ever was under the old director? Might be something to do with the fact they seem to have more funds these days, I wonder why that could be.

There's also the fact that recently the zoo has been breaking their own various attendance records, records which have stood for decades. And the fact I can't think of a single empty enclosure at the zoo right now. Doesn't sound like a zoo going backwards to me.

It's funny how you only seem to repeatedly have issue with Dudley, with nothing positive to say, when there are far worse places in the UK with much bigger problems, but they all get off lightly for some reason.

Like you say you've been berating the zoo for over two years now, right from the start of when the 'new management' took over, without giving them the slightest chance. This tells me your criticism is more likely a personal agenda than anything else. The 'old management' was in place for 22 years, for the majority of that time the zoo was a wretched place. It was only the last 6 or 7 of those 22 years that the zoo started to edge forward (maybe after the members of the animal team you say is allegedly now running the zoo became more senior and influential).

You say the 'new management' are useless, but you never say why or give any examples/specifics.

I also highly doubt that the 'new management' really had full control back then. A few months after the new director took over he did an interview where he basically said now their main plan is to focus on upgrading all the zoo's old existing enclosures (enclosures that had been neglected and complained about for decades under the old management), with few major projects or new species. This is what we've been seeing over the past 2 years. There has been a noticeable difference in the rate, type, ambition and quality of improvements since the new management took over in spring 2015. Just because it's a different style don't mean it's bad. Do I really need to list all the improvements which have been made just in the 3 years since the 'new management' took over? Improvements which you always seem to ignore.

When improvements finally started under the 'old management' they only liked to make the big major improvements. These would happen every 1 or 2 years, e.g. lemur walkthrough, penguins, lions, chimps, geladas. Small improvements weren't made or were very poor. The rest of the zoo’s enclosures, and visitor facilities, really were neglected and stagnated for years.

The new management isn't perfect by any means, I've been very critical about some of their decisions. I've also never said that Dudley is an amazing, world class zoo or anything like that; I wouldn't even put them in the top 20 collections in the UK. But, for what they are, I think they're alright, and I think they're currently better than ever.

Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and this is just mine, and everyone can criticise whatever they want, but to say things like the zoo is a mess, it's the worst it has been since the 80s and it will likely be closed in 10 years, without giving any evidence, detail, specific examples or explanation as to why is frankly ridiculous. All foolish conjecture and sad bias from those who I fear would love to relish in the zoo's failure.

Neither the old or new management did/have done this, so I don't see your point.

Yep, just like the new director said they would. Isn't it awful all those enclosures that were neglected for years under the 'old management' are now being upgraded to improve the welfare of the animals which live in them

Give me 4 specific examples and why.

The bear ravine project, the orangutan project, the chimpanzee project, the tiger project. All major developments which are all in the pipeline for the future (the token voting system is to allow the public to decide what order they happen in, and I imagine to give them some extra time). Oh and all the improvements to the visitor facilities which are big investments for the future

There is hardly any more space at the zoo to build huge new enclosures, so they have to extend/refurbish what they've got.

 

@Benosaurus I have no idea where you get the idea that I was best mates with Mr Suddock yes I knew but not that well,if you knew me you would know I was not his greatest fan,as I am not a fan of money man that run zoos fullstop.As for the current management they were all in a place of authority when Mr Suddock was in charge so surely nothing has changed!Time for me to walk from a pointless argument with somebody that is blind to the faults of the zoo,and thank you for confirming why I walked away from this site in the first place!

 

The Bear Ravine/ The orangutan/ The tiger & The chimpanzee projects have been in the pipe line for years not just the last two or three.

The visitor centre took 4 years to get planning permission as stated in the local papers

They currently have 40 acres of land just past the Chimpanzee enclosure which they tried to sell off 5 years ago but decided against it as they decided it would be better for further improvement to the zoo

Scarlet Macaw exihibit may as well put a brick wall up instead of that mesh.

Small avairy at the side of the Orangutan House to small to really house any bird species.

Binturong exhibit a box with no real ground

Kangaroo enclosure this was going to be a Blue Crane exhibit but wasn't fit for purpose (according to keepers) but is for Kangaroo's get real

Giraffe house and outside enclosure too small

Orangutan house and outside exhibit regarded by all as awful should have been this managements priority not all the other so called new management projects.

Lorikeet walk through what a waste of money could have been so much better.

Camel extension was it worth I don't think so.

The aviary by the Ballroom Cafe was going to get done under the old management but it's still there today

The bottom part of the Chimpanzee enclosure is very, very rarely used by the Chimps unless food is put there by the keepers.

As I have already said the land opposite the Chimpanzee enclosure could be used for a great exhibit as it's got a natural incline to it.

Visitor numbers have been on the increase slowly but on the increase for over 10 years now the increase has slowed down over the last 2 years according to the zoo itself.

The Management can't make decisions for themselves they have to ask the public to do it for them with there vote for the next improvements says it all really.

I love Dudley Zoo but currently can't bring myself to by another membership until I see management that are willing to to take the zoo to the next stage not just keep rolling on day to day by doing the least possible improvements for the least amount of money.

 

personally I don`t think any arguments on here will influence any decisions that Dudley or any zoo/safari park make whether that is now or in the future. I do hope Dudley sort themselves out sooner rather than later

 

Not under this management

 

So you're saying the zoo was just as bad under the old director as it is now under the 'new management' as they are the same thing?

Which is apparently the same as the old management (i.e. the one you liked).


The old director was in charge from 1993-2015. The animal team did very well to work their jobs as keepers etc. and manage the zoo at the same time for all those years.

But the 'new management' are the ones actually doing something about those projects, which is surely a good thing. The fact is the zoo are doing big future projects.

This was all under the 'old management' so I don't see your point. And what does the number of years it took the 'old management' to get planning permission to refurb a listed building have to do with anything? It was granted, they did the refurb, and it looks brilliant.

I don't know for sure if the zoo really has this land or not. Would be great if they did. It would cost a huge amount of money to clear all that land and start building brand new enclosures though.
Don't forget that Dudley does not have tens of millions in the bank. The only option they have is to improve what they've got.

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I agree. The mesh is far too tight to see through properly. They made a mistake. All they need to do is change out a couple of the panels. No big deal. The aviary itself is fine, and a nice addition.

That's harsh. I don't like the look of it but it's an ok size. When you say, "no real ground" do you mean no natural substrate or that it has a small floor space? I guess the wood chippings are there for animal husbandry reasons, and binturong are mostly arboreal anyway - one of my criticisms is that there doesn't appear to be enough climbing opportunities.

The 'new management' have put the kangaroos in an enclosure infinitely better than the disgraceful one they had under the 'old management'. Hooray!

Very harsh. Lorikeet walkthroughs in general aren't my favourite thing in the world but Dudley's is quite a nice lorikeet walkthrough as lorikeet walkthroughs go. How could they have made it better? It's also very popular with visitors and makes them a little bit of money.

I haven't seen the new camel extension yet and didn't know they'd started it. I wanted them to extend it over the old adjacent playground and around the back of the farmyard, but apparently they are only doing the latter. The extension will be an improvement but whatever they do it'll never be a brilliant exhibit.
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That's captive apes for you.

Yes it would. But it would be very expensive and they're improving what they've got first.

2015: 279,799 visitors (New director started in spring 2015)
2016: 310,672 visitors (A 30yr record. The only big improvements were the macaques, anteaters & lorikeets)
2017: 302,534 visitors
2018: Highest Feb half term numbers on record, highest May Day bank holiday numbers for more than 20yrs.

I agree it should be number one priority. But at least this management, after only a couple of years in charge, are doing something about it. They have some great enclosure plans and fundraising is going well.

As a public attraction the zoo has to cater towards what the public want to see. It's only those 3 projects they have asked the public to vote on, all of which will happen anyway. None of the projects are particularly urgent, except for the orang project which they are fundraising for and doing anyway.

The token voting system is most likely a business strategy. Probably to give them more time to fundraise, draw up plans, get planning permission, do archaeological surveys, check for any listed building protection infringements (castle, Tecton), check if it violates any protected native wildlife (bats, newts)etc. etc.. It also gets the public interested and feel part of the zoo, which can only be a good thing.

What should they do with it?

I agree. It's probably one of the most urgent things at the zoo. The 'old management' didn't do anything about it either.

I agree. The one that was built by the 'old management'?

What are you talking about? The zoo has loads of faults. I'm always criticising the zoo and talking about their faults and how crappy certain aspects are. I'm just not blind to the positives or things that have improved either.

 

This will never end we can all find faults with any collection I will stand by what I have said and you will stand by what you say so we will have to agree to dis agree but I do hope one day they get the funding they were promised after the Tecton refurbishment programme but is still not forth coming.
Yes they do own the land and if one day you get the chance to walk around the area you will find some old enclosures among the area.
Keep well and enjoy your zoo days.

 

Make your mind up - your thought process here is all over the place.

 

Reread them again its not all over the place but if you think it is thats you right.I am not going to get into an argument as you and all the others on this site are not worth risking me making myself ill again,and on that note its goodbye again and me gone from zoochat!

 

Wow, that was eventful.

 

You do what you think is best for you - internet forum conversations are certainly not worth making yourself ill over

 

Someone on social media recently complained to the zoo with regards to why the sea lion pool is not currently full of water.

The zoo replied saying, "It is currently breeding season and as sea lion pups are not born in the water we have drained most of the pool to replicate their natural birthing habitat. We have put some signage around the pool to inform visitors, apologies if you did not see these signs during your visit."

Fingers crossed

 

Fingers crossed but I don't think I've ever known another zoo drain their pool for sea lion births. Is it really necessary - or does it suggest they don't have enough space out of the water?