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Elephants in Zoos

Discussion in 'General Zoo Discussion' started by Beastking04, 28 Apr 2015.

  1. Loxodonta Cobra

    Loxodonta Cobra Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    This is a real shame on the failed breeding program for elephants in the U.S. in my opinion, but here's my opinion on this topic.

    Europe could actually learn a thing or two from the San Diego Zoo Safari Park and other facilities in North America in regards with African Elephants, while North America could learn the same from Europe with Asians from sites such as Hannover, Rotterdam, Emmen, and Dublin. I know that Asian elephants are the more endangered of the three species and I would be delighted to have a import of asian elephants from zoos in Europe or even better somewhere such as Thailand, anywhere to help increase the population of breeding individuals and breeding results. Unfortunately it seems that most of the asian elephant collections in North America are infested with EEHV (thanks Dickerson Park Zoo), and the people in North America are more with the activists than with the conservationists. Many don't know or understand the problems that's going on in East Africa or South Asia, and they probably will never afford to see it for real to see the true effect. The people in North America would apparently rather spend lost of money on moving elephants out (Think of the millions that went in the protest on Toronto Zoo what could have gone to actual elephant conservation projects)saying that they're exhibits are unsuitable for their pachyderms and send them off instead of renovate in the animals (and Zoochaters) favor. Most of the bad from critics simply comes from the elephant's indoor facilities which could be relatively cheap to modernize (just put in a sand floor, that's all it takes). So asian elephants are doomed on our side of the Atlantic ocean, african elephants meanwhile have been becoming more and more common thanks to their image as the first thing to come into people's minds when they think of an elephant, and because of the fact that they are still not currently listed as endangered on the global scale in the wild. Zimbabwe, South Africa, Botswana, Namibia, Uganda, and Mozambique are countries where the government allows the importation of elephants due to the relatively stable to over-population of the pachyderms. These imports are how most of the african elephants in zoos all across the world came to zoos in the first place. African elephants are also immune to the effects of EEHV despite being carriers, so that helps to make the population increase in a EEVH infected continent. Not just elephants, but it also seems that some majority of popular animals that are relatively stable or on the increase in Europe (Black Rhinos, Polar Bears, Brazilian Tapirs, Walruses) are almost extinct in North American Collections.
     
  2. Shellheart

    Shellheart Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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  3. Loxodonta Cobra

    Loxodonta Cobra Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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  4. gerenuk

    gerenuk Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    How are Black Rhinos and Brazilian Tapirs almost extinct in North American collections?

    A few facts to debate your statement:
    SDWAP hasn't had an elephant birth in 3 years.
    In North America 3.5 Africans have been born in the last 5 years, and 6.12 Asians have been born in the last 5 years.
    African Elephants have died from EEHV in North American zoos.

    In my opinion, captive elephant populations can only be sustained if cooperation occurs amongst zoos. No single zoo can be seen as the model for captive breeding.
     
  5. Loxodonta Cobra

    Loxodonta Cobra Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    To answer your question, Black rhinos are breeding poorly here in North America due to apparent high mortality rates in young, and Brazilian tapirs are being phased out in favor of Baird's and Malayan tapirs thanks to the AZA.

    I agree that SDWAP has not had an elephant birth in some time now, and I think the keepers are rather happy with that. The elephant exhibit is packed now, and they look like they're waiting for their baby bulls to grow so they can be sent elsewhere.

    On the 6.12 Asians being born in the last five years, yes but how many of them have contracted EEHV?

    The last statement is true entirely, no zoo can be seen itself as a model for conservation, it all must be the cooperation of others of it's kind to ensure the organizations and facilities success.
     
  6. gerenuk

    gerenuk Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Lowland Tapirs are still commonly found in non-AZA zoos. They are not disappearing. The Eastern Black Rhino population is having more issues with holding space, than breeding success.

    Out of the 6.12 Asian calves maybe one has contracted EEHV, but all 6.12 are alive. I didn't count the calves that have died in the past 5 years.
     
  7. loxodontaafrica

    loxodontaafrica Well-Known Member

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    SDSP hasn't had a birth as of late because Msholo has some sort of reproductive abnormality. He was never successful with the cows at Lowry park either, despite numerous observed matings.
    Vus Musi, who has recently entered sexual maturity will be transferred to another facility this fall.
     
  8. Ceyx

    Ceyx New Member

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    Fresno Chaffee Zoo is opening a new Africa exhibit in October, including a multi-acre elephant exhibit. They received a breeding age mother/daughter pair, who will be paired an unrelated male in hopes of establishing a new breeding herd.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhnj1_KgpwY
     
  9. cmrButton5

    cmrButton5 Well-Known Member

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  10. cmrButton5

    cmrButton5 Well-Known Member

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  11. ZooElephantMan

    ZooElephantMan Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Probably not until anyone else reaches an age near vusmusi's
     
  12. cmrButton5

    cmrButton5 Well-Known Member

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  13. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

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    Denver had two older beloved females, Dolly and Mimi, before their incredible new facility was completed. Mimi died, and Kimbo took her place. Then, Kimbo died last year:

    Denver zoo elephant 'Kimbo' dies after refusing to eat and drink - The Denver Post

    I know that breeding zoos and zoos with the best facilities are not always the same thing, but Columbus Zoo should be on the breeding list. Giant Vance son Hank was brought in to sire calves with Phoebe after Coco suddenly died, although there are no reports on here about how that's working out.

    Cincinnati has been actively breeding Joti to Sabu for a while; she has had a calf (albeit 16 years ago), so it's not her first, and she's only 28.

    Calgary's proven Spike is in Tampa/Busch Gardens for breeding with Karnaudi, who is also young.

    There are a number of zoos who are ready with bulls and would become "breeding zoos" if they were to receive breeding-age females; these include Dickerson Park and Tulsa. In addition, Denver's facility has made it invaluable as a male holding center, but they have indicated in the past that they can accommodate 12 elephants and would move into breeding should a female become available.

    It should be noted, however, that by far, the most successful breeders of Asian elephants are Ringling and African Lion Safari (which breeds Asians despite its name) They have produced together more than 40 calves in the last 25 years; they've also lost calves at a far, far lower rate of EEHV than US zoos. ALS has had only one EEHV death, and there is exactly one Ringling death that could have been EEHV.
     
  14. ZooElephantMan

    ZooElephantMan Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Where do you get all this vast knowledge of elephants from?
     
  15. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

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    LOL I'm the mother of a now-college-age daughter who knew she wanted to work with Asian elephants more than a decade ago. During these years, she gradually absorbed the entire AZA studbook, kept me running around the country to learn about each zoo's husbandry procedures and facilities, devoured all academic and scientific articles she can get through my college database, kept in touch with people and blogs from all of the Asian breeding zoos, plus many more. She eagerly alerts me to news and discoveries, so I guess I have acquired much by osmosis and still more with the curiosity and concern she has raised in me. For all of this knowledge she has about the over-arching issues facing the species, she's actually most gifted in her abilities to relate to animals. Several times recently in our travels, zoo keepers have been so surprised to see how elephants are reacting to her in the crowd, that she's been invited to come inside the habitat to learn more, once to work an entire day with the keepers. She's the one with the vast knowledge and talent!
     
  16. ZooElephantMan

    ZooElephantMan Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Whoa. So the elephants actually react to her presence? Thats so cool! I like know a lot about elephant behavior and how to know what they are thinking, and understand their physical social cues, but nothing like elephants actually reacting to me. How does she do it?
     
  17. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

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    She doesn't "do" anything; it's just who she is. We bred dogs for 20 years, and she was the same with them. She can intuit animals the way we intuit people. Three years ago at the SD WAP, female Asian elephant Q'Nisa had just been born that morning, and there were people lined up craning their necks to see down into the paddock where the baby was standing, but not yet drinking. This was on the pathway now used only for keepers that abuts the new tiger exhibit. We couldn't see too well, and she happened to notice an adult male named Msholo looking at her through the barn. She ventured down toward him, never closer than 20', and it was clear from his actions that he was delighted to see her and seemed to be talking to her. She responded, and this went on for about 5". By then, a couple of the keepers who had all been down on the lawn overlooking the new baby, noticed this interaction. They immediately took her down to where all the keepers were closely watching for signs of nursing. This special treatment in front of all the people back at the fence, craning their necks! I was worried she'd be booed. The keepers took her right in to their group and told her all the details of the birth, the protocols they had to abide by, the importance of record-keeping of minute details, etc. We only later realized that Msholo--who had come from Swaziland with the rest of the SD herd--had been at Lowry Park with the 5 in that herd until just recently. I can only guess that he had been shy with keepers before seeing my daughter. Perhaps that's why they were so surprised that he had shown such great interest in her? I've long ago learned that these are God-given gifts that can't be easily explained or quantified.
     
  18. ZooElephantMan

    ZooElephantMan Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Wow that is so awesome. I am at a loss for words. That is truly an amazing talent (If talent is the correct term)/
     
    Last edited: 9 Oct 2015
  19. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

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    There was a great deal of Ringling blooc already out there in zoos, even before Doc went to Syracuse and Romeo went to Fort Worth. Zoo Asians born from Ringling elephants include Targa in Syracuse, Kernaudi in Tampa/Busch, Angel in Fort Worth, Hank in Columbus, and Spike in Tampa/Busch.

    What would really have an impact, however, would be for Ringling to loan cows to US zoos. It's asking a great deal, but I'm hoping it's more likely once their elephants stop touring in 2018, allowing many of those circus retirees like Juliet and Kelly Ann to begin breeding.
     
  20. loxodontaafrica

    loxodontaafrica Well-Known Member

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    just a small correction- Spike is actually not from circus stock, he was sired by Dhalip, and a since deceased female at the Miami Metro Zoo.

    I've heard that Juliet has an irregular hormonal cycle- as well as the fact the the younger females on the "blue circuit" have been actively AI'd for some years now.