To return to the original thread : - the orcas will have to leave Marineland in 2022. - all dolphins will have to leave France parks in 2027. - some ideas for the leaving marine mammals are to create sanctuary (government doesn't want them to go in China or other countries with low concern on animal welfare). - regarding the circus wild animals they speak about elephants, hippos, big cats but we are not sure it will be the same for all wild animals. There will be big problems to relocate the big cats as their number is estimated between 200 and 500.
This document proves there are bad circuses - something I was not denying. But it does noting to prove that ALL circuses are bad, as you so claim. Not sure about the source, either. They website says "OUR VISION is a world without animal suffering where all beings are treated with compassion." which sounds a lot like something PETA would say. Their website also says that they are trying to get animals recognized as sentient beings. They are clearly an animal rights group, however looking at the blog section of their website they certainly seem a "tamer" version. So I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
To be fair, I doubt you'll be able to find many sources detailing animal cruelty in circuses that aren't from animal rights groups. ~Thylo
His quoted source was biased against circuses - your claimed source is biased towards circuses. Neither is good enough.
Fair enough, though PETA is a different matter altogether. This Humane Action Pittsburgh seems reliable enough, though. I also have yet to see evidence that all circuses are bad like @Fignewton is trying to claim here.
Righteousness wins once again! Yahoo! But I don't understand, why aren't domestic animals not banned from performing? Does domestication somehow make an animal immune from abuse? Or are "wild" animals only banned because they are "'free spirits,' and they cannot and should not be tamed by human greed" yet the story is different for domestics. Basically the same logic with exotic pet keeping. By getting rid of those nasty circuses I'm sure that the AR will finally go to their holes to slumber. They definitely won't harass education outreaches, flight shows, and sea lion demonstrations. They will listen to the justification of modern zoos parrot like they always have.
It can be hard to know what is sarcasm in writing. Try putting some smiles in there (like , , , or ) to try and show you are being sarcastic.
If France decides to ban domestic animals from performing they will have to forgo any future bids for the summer Olympics as dressage is
I will throw my two cents into the debate. Fur farms. I am surprised people still wear mink coats due to the stigma. I see no reason for fur farms, though in one sense I think they are not that different from animals farmed for food (chickens, etc). Of course some of these live in poor conditions which is a whole other topic. But I am not sorry to see the mink farms go. Dolphins and orcas and the like. I have never seen a dolphin/porpoise/orca tank that I would consider big enough to adequately meet their needs. So I am not sorry to see them go either, just as I was happy to see the (short lived) dolphin tanks in Scottsdale in my state of Arizona go away. I freely admit that my expectations of adequate size for zoo and aquarium enclosures are far beyond that of most ZooChatters. I will say the majority (as in well over fifty percent) of zoo exhibits I have seen are too small. Circuses. An old friend of mine worked for about a year as a stage hand for Ringling Brothers Circus, not long before they closed down. When they came to my city he gave me a backstage tour after the show (I did not see the show itself). I was appalled at the living conditions of the wild animals. The Asian elephants were each chained to a pole in the basement of the arena with hay over the cement floor and an electrified wire around each of them so they could not have contact with each other. The tigers were all in small rolling cages. I was never keen on circuses (and had not been to one since I was a child), but after seeing this I am opposed to wild animals in circuses. Ringling was (I think) the most well known and well funded circus and I cannot imagine conditions are better at any other circus.
Circuses I wont lose sleep over,mink farms are obviously wrong and the subject of cetaceans in captivity has gone back and forth in ZooChat threads ever since ive been here( personally I have no objection to the better facilities for cetaceans at all and i would recommend a visit to Harderwijks dolphin lagoon in The Netherlands for those who have made their mind up without seeing such a thing). It seems that the draconian rule to make existing facilities move their animal under a time limit is totally unfair and is also abrogating responsibility somewhat. I really feel for Marineland Antibes which is a decent place with high standards.In the past they have managed to overturn legal nonsense concerning captive cetaceans and I hope they can do it again.
That's absolutely true. They're sad news actually. Next will be the zoos and maybe next they will want to kill all wild animals on Earth and leave only domestic ones....
Lots of different countries have restrictions on circuses. I don't think this means we need to worry about zoos.
You can argue ? I don't see the link between circus, where nothing have change for animal welfare, conservation, people education... since they were created... and zoos (wich are not perfect but evolved in a good way for the major part).
You can't compear a institution like Zoos, with a history education and conservation. With a circus, a simple source of entertainment. With no deeper meaning.Wih little care for animal walfare
