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ZOO Antwerpen Future projects (2009 - 2010)

Discussion in 'Belgium' started by Hippo, 26 Aug 2008.

  1. Hippo

    Hippo Well-Known Member

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    The Antwerp Zoo has introduced some of their future projects:


    2009
    The monumental 'Small Mammal Building' becomes the 'Congo Peafowl Building' combining a section for the public and a modern breeding centre.


    2009
    The okapis get more space and the babirusas and anoas will have a new place near the okapis.

    [​IMG]


    2009
    The giraffes will also have more space. From 644 m² to 1500 m².

    [​IMG]


    2010
    In 2009 the zoo will start with the construction of a new enclosure for lions, meerkats ans yellow mongoose at the current 'Grand Enclosure' for camels and donkeys. It will be ready in 2010

    [​IMG]


    Future
    The lions move to the big landscape enclosure. The other cat species get a whole new enclosure with much more space and habitat variation.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Gorilla Gust

    Gorilla Gust Well-Known Member

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    Promising plans for the Zoo, and very soon already. This is something we "must" follow ;) :)
     
  3. Marc

    Marc Well-Known Member

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    Great! Antwerp Zoo realy is a example for other zoo's. It's changes and invest continuous! New impressions seems very nice!
     
  4. Gorilla Gust

    Gorilla Gust Well-Known Member

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    But it is only a shame (according to me) that the original plans are changed into this at the moment. I would very much liked a big tower to watch on the Okapi's there in Antwerp...

    But these plans are then more exiting due the animals the will held there near the Okapi's. A difficult choice, is it good or bad? I don"t know, but i am very excited now, that's for sure!
     
  5. Yassa

    Yassa Well-Known Member

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    I can`t see that Antwerp`s plan are an example for other zoos - in fact, I hope not. The current giraffe enclosure is dysmal but enlarging it to just 1.500 m² is not that great at all. It`s more space then before, but it`s still small. The same for an okapi enclosure of barely 500 m².... I guess there will be serveral outdoor enclosures, but Antwerp has many okapis too, and that`s not much space. It will all be better then before but not "good". antwerp just doesn`t have the space to keep so many large mammals. They should drastically reduce the numbers of large mammals, but I see this is not going to happen, instead they are spending a lot of money on small improvements.
     
  6. Gorilla Gust

    Gorilla Gust Well-Known Member

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    The larger mammals move to another Zoo? Not a bad idea, but Antwerp will not do that i think. Therefor there is to much pride in Zoo with their collection...

    But you can already see that the breedingprojects of larger mammals are moving to Planckendael... Only they still keep the mammals that are not in this kind of programs...

    Just keep in mind that it is a Cityzoo, they can never be a "great" Zoo for larger Mammals, but every Zoo wants to keep them ;)
     
  7. Yassa

    Yassa Well-Known Member

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    I know it is like that, and that`s the mistake. Animal welfare should come first. Many city zoos have reduced their number of large mammals. London Zoo is a great example for this. If Antwerp has other priorities then the welfare of their animals, well, I can`t change that, but I feel they will run into big trouble with animal right groups down the road, and I won`t feel sorry for that.
     
  8. Jurek7

    Jurek7 Well-Known Member

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    What is this building? One with monkeys?

    Like Yassa, I feel that animals will have too little space. Perhaps without babirusas and anoas, okapi would be better.
     
  9. Hippo

    Hippo Well-Known Member

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    First, I would say that Antwerp is a small zoo, only 10 hectare this days and after the new spaces are used, 11,5 hectare. I think that Antwerp is the smallest zoo with such a famous career. Artis (Amsterdam) and London Zoo are almost 14 hectare, Vienna Zoo is 17 hectare and Berlin Zoo 35 hectare. OK, Ménagerie du Jardin des Plantes in Paris is 5,5 hectare and they don't keep elephants and giraffes anymore.

    And can Antwerp without elephants, giraffes, gorilla's, etc.? I Think not, because this animals are today or in the future at up-comming zoos like Planckendael and Parc Paradisio. London and Paris can do it without elephants because they were build in world cities from around 10 million people. Cities like them have millions of tourists every year.
    Antwerp is just a small city with only a population of 470.000 and 1,7 million in the province Antwerp.

    And Antwerp wouldn't have any breeding groups of the most big species anymore. They go to Planckendael like the giraffes now and the elephants in the future.


    With all the changes, they are clear with the Belgium law. No troubles anymore.
    And you must know that these project aren't the enclosures for many years. No, the real enclosures at the expantion will be only ready in 2017. so, it will be more better then.
    Zoos are companies like others. What's the diffrent between for example Coca-Cola and an zoo? Nothing, just that the Coca-Cola Company have a function as "make soft drinks" and zoos "care about the nature" in big lines. All the rest is the same, all companies must make profit. And for zoos are big animals the top attractions.
    I totaly agree that animal welfare must be the first prioritie, but I know that it's more than that. Zoos must survive and make frofit too.


    Antwerp will never have the biggest enclosure for an animal, that's more than normal. 1.500 m² isn't that big, but a nice expanding for them. The enclosure will be used by 3 or 4 giraffe females who don't participate in the EEP.



    Current, there are 3 encclosures of +/- 1370 m² together. With the new enclosure of 462 m² there is an outdoor space of +/- 1830 m².
    Antwerp hasn't many okapis today. Only 4 (1.3). 10 stables are available.


    No, with current the babirussas, blue duikers and African Brush-tailed Porcupines. The first ones go to the new enclosures on the plan, the blue duikers will be together with the okapis and the African Brush-tailed Porcupines go to the red pandas.
     
  10. Gorilla Gust

    Gorilla Gust Well-Known Member

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    So much difference there isn"t between there visitors anymore. So you can Planckendael barely call a Up-comming Zoo... They are there already:) But that is offtopic i think :p



    But you are right Hippo,
    due that Paradisio is becoming a real Zoo instead of a bird park alone, there is more competition for the Zoo's in Belgium. The Olmense Zoo and Monde Sauvage are no competition against the Zoo and Planckendael, but Paradisio can be that in the future... Certain when they get there elephants and etc. (only that last is a little bit unfortunately within the Zoo-world, because it would be wild elephants, but the visitors won"t see that ;) )

    Because the Zoo and Planckendael are from one company there isn"t much competion between those two according to me. No more competion that between the Zodiac Zoos of Holland for example. Only some of the Older people within the organisation are sometimes cleary "pro Antwerp" againt Planckendael... ;)
     
  11. Hippo

    Hippo Well-Known Member

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    Something I have forgotten to say: Antwerp have already leave some very popular animals like their white rhinoceros (2001), polar bears (2004), kodiak bears (2002 I think), red forest buffalos (2004), bantengs (a few years ago), orangutans (2007), bottlenose dolphins (1999), etc.
    Visitors are still searching this animals in Antwerp and can't find them...
    So, Antwerp get more animal welfare for the other animals.
     
  12. sooty mangabey

    sooty mangabey Well-Known Member

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    If London is seriously being suggested as having shown the route which others, such as Antwerp, might follow then I am a banana. A few recent improvements aside, there is very little to see at London, and as a zoo bereft of so many 'big' animals it just isn't such a wonderful place as it might be. Antwerp, on the other hand, is a zoo where animals lurk around every corner. Sure, some of the enclosures are on the small side, but I haven't seen too many unhealthy animals who are suffering there. On the contrary, I see a superb collection, well looked-after, really thriving. Much of the zoo is absolutely Premier-league - the reptile house and the nocturnal house stand out. If the okapis are so porrly housed, then they seem to be doing pretty well on it. If Antwerp (and other such 'old school' zoos) is Londonised, then the zoo world will be a poorer place.
     
  13. Yassa

    Yassa Well-Known Member

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    @ hippo: If you were correct and Antwerp needed to keep elephants, giraffes, okapis, gorillas, chimps and more large mammals in cramped conditions to survive economically, I have to say that it would be best to close the zoo and concentrate all efforts on Plankendahl. The need to make money does not justify to keep large mammals in substandard enclosures.

    @ sooty mangabey: It all depends what you want to see in a zoo. For me, animal welfare is top priority, and from that point of view, hardly anything in Antwerp is "premier-legue". The new enclosures for spectacled bears/coatis and for hippos are acceptable, actually pretty good if you compare it with the rest of the zoo; same for cape buffals and zebras. But the rest...

    I do not suggest that no large animals shall be kept in Antwerp; definately not. With hippos, bears, zebras, buffelo they already have some good enclosures. Now there are plans to move the lions - if they get all the space where the donkeys and camles live now, fantastic. I like this part of the plan. When the elephants have been moved to Plankendahl, they could use the current elephant enclosure to further expand the giraffe area. That would be a really good enclosure. Or they could use the current elephant enclosure for non-breeding rhinos (infertile bulls like Hannover`s Kifaru for example), in a mixed species exhibit with baboons for example. I am totally against the idea to keep a non-breeding group of elephants in Antwerp; be it in the current enclosure or in the expansion area. There is absolutely no space for that. And they urgently need to do something with the remaining great apes AND with all the monkeys in the monkey house - not having any acess to outdoor enclosures is totally unacceptable. Going out of orang utans was a step in the right decision but it`s far from enough. At least from my point of view.
     
  14. jwer

    jwer Well-Known Member

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    Can't really bother to argue at the moment, but i disagree. The larger animals are housed in okay enclosures and they will be kept even better once the expansion comes through. Size definately isn't everything when it comes down to animal welfare.
     
  15. sooty mangabey

    sooty mangabey Well-Known Member

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    Agree wholly with Mr / Ms jwer. Yes, it will be good when the monkeys have outdoor space, and yes, the cats are in quite small enclosures, and yes, the elpehant enclosure is not massive. But these animals are not suffering to my mind - far from it - and each year many hundreds of thousands of people are having the opportunity to see incredible species in beautiful surroundings. I envy those for whom Antwerp is their local zoo!
     
  16. Marc

    Marc Well-Known Member

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    Every zoo has good and bad points of course. Antwerp Zoo is small, that's a fact but they deliver very good work and in the future they will use the space they have good, I put my trust on that :). I was in Hagenbeck Zoo last week in Germany, wich is 2,5 times bigger than the Antwerp Zoo and have much less animals and species, and there the lion exhibit is smaller than the new one Antwerp will create coming year... Also the space for Coati's was not that large as in Antwerp. Even the Giraf enclousure certainly was not much larger than the one Antwerp will get after the enlargement (and they also share it with another specie in Hagenbeck). So a large zoo doesn't always mean more space for animals even if they have the possibility. And Antwerp Zoo is a protected monument so it's even more difficult to create more space for animals, but they still do it in the best way they can! But of course I realize they can't have a Elephant exhibit like in Köln...

    (I liked Hagenbeck Zoo very much!)
     
  17. Philipine eagle

    Philipine eagle Well-Known Member

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    With the exception of the elephants (whom i would like to see leaving the zoo - their present enclosure is too small, and a new one would be to impressive given the rather small size of the zoo) i think Antwerp is making excellent progress.

    Nocturnal and reptile house are outstanding improvements, the historical parc and collection are the real attractions of the zoo. I agree much can be better, and so the cats will have their part of the modernisation. I'm not convinced that every tropical monkey species needs an outdoor enclosure. Certainly, some things can be better (once their is a new gorilla exibit, i hope the guerzza and owl-faced guenons are kept together with the gorilla - the celebes macaques definitely need a larger space) but overall this stays a very attractive building. If i compare it with those in West-Berlin, Barcelona, Cologne, etc. the Antwerp small monkey house still looks very modern (although it's been built in 1978).

    Really urgent are the big cats (lions 2010, tiger valley and others 2012?), small owls (i wander why they don't built some new aviaries in Planckendael, the zoo really got an interesting collection), gorilla enclosure, giraffes and some aviaries. Too bad the plans for babirussa and anoa are just temporary, especially because it's been built on what i excepted to be the location for the gorilla forest.
     
  18. Gorilla Gust

    Gorilla Gust Well-Known Member

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    The Giraff enclosure will be 900+ m² instead of 1500m²...
     
  19. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    Can you elaborate what is temporary about the anoa/babirusa enclosures?
    What if these are temp ... what is will happen to the space once they - sadly - have left Zoo Antwerpen .... more okapi spaces?

    The current Great Ape House has been somewhat renovated for the chimps and gorillas after the orangs left .... (but not ideal and I am sure not the final redevelopment Zoo Antwerpen was looking for). What are the eventual plans for the gorilla and chimps?

    The Primate House with its collection of rare langurs, Sulawesi macaques, guerezas and guenons ... what are the plans for them? Will the South American monkeys be relocated to the South American biome in Park Planckendael (where they all would be more in tune with the other species on offer)?

    The birds of prey (vultures and owls) and the Carnivore House ... what will happen there?

    The Small Mammal House ... for Congo peafowl ... fascinating, but how will it look like?

    Soo many questions yet unanswered! ;)
     
  20. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

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    Are you talking about a house or outside pen?