grant - most of the gorillas at melbourne have alternate "secret" names used by the keepers. this is to avoid the sort of scenarios that (with no offence to you gorilla girl) is mentioned in the previous post - the public shouting out the animals name to get their attention. the melbourne-born gorillas have always had alias that reflect the first letter of their maternal parent's name. ie, yuska's children are yakini and ya kwanza, g-anne's child is ganyeka, julia's is junamantano, betsy had bambuti etc.. melbourne doesn't have a great deal of room surrounding the african rainforest section, especially not if they intend on expanding the asian rainforest in its direction. there is however enough room to create a smaller second gorilla troop exhibit if they redevelop the ape grottoes. i was told some years ago that the zoo board was keen on a shopping precinct in this area, and there were some media reports here about the zoo developing a 24hr shopping precinct.... clearly it was a load of rubbish as nobody would ever go to the zoo just to shop, let alone at midnight! melbourne used to have chimpanzees Zoo_Boy, the ape grottoes once housed all three great ape genera (other than ourselves of couurse). however they eventually gave them to taronga after bulluman and betsy were moved to melbourne to join rigo and yuska. in those days zoos had very little success with breeding gorillas, so since the apee grottoes at the time were considered "state-of-the-art" the gorilla collection was consolidated here. of course buluman turend out to be sterile and rigo didn't get along with the girls, hence mzuri was born in a world first artificial insemination.. Zoo_Boy, if melbourne wants to display more gorillas, then a chimp exhibit is just not practical. ther simply isn't the space for the enclosure or the dens in the ape house to house them. i have no idea about elephants grant, issume all is well, but i haven't visited zoo since after they first arrived and unfortunately i'm the only forum member from melbourne.....
thanks Patrick now I feel bad! Actually I felt on the day of my "encounter" that I shouldn't have called out to him, but couldn't help myself, and I guess my reasoning at the time was to break the monotony of Rigo's boring day by interacting a little with him.... I only did it because I care! It is a dream of mine to be a primate keeper (join the queue right?!) and I reckon that is about the closest I will ever get to my dream... Point taken though... The elephants seem to be settling in well from what I saw, but I must say I did feel that their enclosure is too small. Am I the only one that thinks this? It seems to me that since the redevelopment there is so much space wasted (in my opinion) on the village theme, and the surrounding tracks, gardens etc. and this space would have been better suited to creating more room for the elephants.....
dont feel bad gg, i talk to all the animals at wht ever zoo i go to, like at mogo all the aniamls now know me lol and the chimp thing was jsut an idea so yea
well the movement is a drawn-out affair then??? its been like that since january. i thought it was to give the baboons more room. who knows where theyll end up (or do we? did i miss something?)
yea u missed it, they are going to werribee, to create an african desert theme at zoo, it will be backdropped by the camels etc. it will be one exhibit for 2 troops, and maybe with anteleop not sure.
gorillas again Patrick- thanks for explanation over the gorilla 'doublenames'. You probably know most zoo gorillas get given pet names used by the keepers etc-often its just a shortened version of the full name- eg. 'Sally' for Salome- at Jersey they call Ya Kwanza- 'Yukky'- not very dignified! Melbourne seem to do it differently. ( Incidentally, gorilla girl, I don't think enough general visitors know the gorillas' names for calling to them to be a serious problem or stress for the animals- though I'll admit Rigo is very well known to the public...) I remember the chimp group in the ape grottoes my very first visit to Melbourne-I didn't know they went to Sydney. I think Sydney's chimp enclosure and large group is one of the best/most spacious I've seen. I didn't know(until reading your old post) that the Taronga Gorilla enclosure was built for Pandas. That explains the rockwork/waterfall design and why its too small for a large Gorilla group! Incidentally did you know that Taronga PAID money ($million?) to Apenheul(Holland) for their gorilla group- very unusual in this day and age. Gorilla girl/patrick/everyone- concerning Rigo- here is a summary of what I was told in an official email dated 21st September this year- maybe they replied to me cos I live so far away; 1. They have a recommendation(from EEP or Australian Zoos or whoever) to only breed two gorillas every eight years. This time they are asked to use Rigo. They have a choice of two options- give him two females, thus forming a 2nd group- or put him with the whole group and take out Motaba. (I would certainly have tried the former- a long time ago...) 2. But they don't want yet another single male(Motaba)- hence the decision to remove him and his two sons together to form a batchelor group. They may stay (I quote) at Melbourne permanently if no appropriate homes are found for them elsewhere. The Orang grottoes may be remodelled in the longterm if this happens.(so presumably no major remodelling in the short term.) 3.Again I quote- ' Rigo should be housed with the family group(less Motaba and sons) within the next six to eight months '(so now 4-6 months)- though they are prepared for introductions to take anything up to a year. So that's the official plans. My guess is GAnne and Julia will be chosen as 'mates' as they have only one offspring each. Betsi & Yuska shouldn't be a problem in the large enclosure- plenty of room to stay out of reach if they still don't get on with him after all these years. Seems like the new elephants are settling in okay after the long delay to import them. I am interested to see if 'Bong Su' can be a breeding bull after life as a non-breeder. No reason why not. Patrick- does Melbourne still have Lion-tailed Macaques? Its true many rarer monkeys have disappeared in zoos all over, in favour of 'showy' species like Colobus. But fashions are changing again and they are now re-appearing in some places too.
hey guys. gorilla girl - don't feel bad. when i was a teenager i wagged school and snuck into the zoo. i climbed over the barrier and fed rigo some branches that i tore off a nearby tree!!! i would never dare do such a thing now, at the time i didn't even know what it was i was feeding him or if it was safe. my mother, wholoves all things asian, loves visiting teh zoo since the asian prcinct was completed, she regauraly shouts out "bong su" and "mek kapah" at the elephants ( i keep to myself that the keepers just refer to them as suey and kapah).... whilst i embarassingly look the other way..... also, the general consenus here at the forum (with varying degrees) is that whilst we supported the elephant import, we would have liked to see all elephants become a open-range zoo only display. we think the melbourne exhibit is good, but too small nonetheless and taronga's smaller enclosure takes even more heat from us. elephants have been the hottest topic here at the forum for years, feel free to read some of the archived discussions, it must be an interesting read!!! regarding rigo, i think they should just do a quick refurb of the ape grottoes and find him some additional females. i'm nnot down with ethe whole EEP recomendations, but a good start would be bringing the adelaide girls over to melbourne. the ape grottoes are far from perfect, but given a refurb would still be bigger than the panda turned gorilla exhibit at taronga.... grant - melbourne does still have lion-tailed macaques, but after sme time at unsuccessful breeding they are earmarked for phase-out, regardless of their endangered status ( i think adelaide has them too). in fact, due to the herpes B threat, it looks like ther is a chance all macaques species may be phased out of the region, though sulawesi macaques still are up in the air....
allsorts. I think all of us have 'talked to the animals' at some stage- that's what zoos are all about! And I certainly don't feel guilty trying to attract a gorilla's attention if I want to photograph it- it doesn't have to look or come over if it doesn't want to... Yep- the two adelaide female gorillas would be better going to Melbourne- you need them in Australia more than Europe does- if Taronga bought(rather than a loan) their gorillas(which they did) then I wonder why these two are coming back to Europe. Unfortunately, my guess is the 'official' version as I was told, is what will happen though. Elephants- I read a lot about them in the old postings- and about the import blockades in press reports. Smaller city zoos(and REgents Park) in the UK have also phased out elephants nowadays- the thinking about eles needing large areas seems universal now. A UK contact whose seen it told me the new Melbourne enclosure is well done- you guys say its rather small? Of course no city zoo can afford the same space as open range conditions which I agree are better. better. patrick- thanks for info on the Liontailed monkeys. I think they are always a good display- apart from their status- it seems a pity if they go. There are plenty in UK at present. Also in uk we again have Drills(not Mandrills- they're common) -the first time this species has been seen in this country for nearly forty years!
i think that for now, melbourne should concentrate on doing up the other side of the zoo and leave the (already amazing) african rainforest alone, though an extra pygmy hippo or two would be good. the other side of the zoo needs, in my mind, drastic attention, in fact, it looks shabby and even more so contrasted agianst world-clas exhibits like the african rainforest, asian elephant trail, the orangs and the well-done australian section. was just wondering how many people have actually seen taronga's completed wild asia exhibit and how many have seen melbournes elephant trail? and also pat, do you know whats out the back of the elephant barn at melbourne in terms of holding facilties? i know taronga has an additional area behind the barn, including another water-body big enough for all 5 animals (from what i can see it backs on to the francois langur exhibit). finally, i got a letter from taronga the other day asking for more money, to which i have responded generously (there goes the christmas shopping budget)...the letter outlined the future elephant breeding centre for the bull and it sounds exciting. it would be fascinating if taronga had to design a forest corridor linking the two areas together along the main boulevard...who knows what solution theyll come up with but my guess is the girls are going to be walked down the road for breeding...
and just for our foreign members, in the uk and such. the elephant exhibits here have got mixed feedback from forum members here...but they are absolutely poles apart from london's completely inadequate enclosure, or indeed any other facility i saw. i guess what it comes down to on this site is the space debate. is the ammount of space given to an animal more important than whats in it, or can you give an animal a reduced but really enriched living environment?
so whats next? hey glyn, yes half of melbourne is somewhat in need of a redevelopement, but many of those exhibits whilst not looking great - have been serving their purpose. in my opinion its not so much shabby, but just underutilised. the gardens in teh area are great, and when they do get around to creating new exhibit in the area, they will have a great range of established trees in which to work with. but your right, id'e pretty much demolish everything and start over. the seals (or coastal section) are the next big developement earmarked, so that will at least see the central section of this part of the zoo completely redone. hopefully the food plaza will be renovated at the same time.
gyln, I think you might be wrong here mate. There's only two water bodies in Taronga's facility - the one closest to the food precinct, and another one, lower down the hill in the second half of the exhibit. Down the escalator to the waterfall area in the exhibit. There's just a small yard at the back of the barn. There's a mud wallow, but it couldn't be classed as a water body.
On another thread I mentioned that the whole side of Melbourne zoo where the big cats and the bears are, is now under review - It will be the next redevelopment agfter the seals etc.
elephant space mmm. yep, London's elephants are certainly better off at Whipsnade, plenty of space in the outside paddock- about two football fields in size- but its very flat with not much enrichment- a bathing pool,sandpit(?) a few treetrunks but that's all. I reckon the space to walk/travel is all important to elephants, so maybe this is better than a 'richer' enclosure which is much smaller? The Whipsnade cows and calves are also walked around the whole park in the afternoons which is another form of enrichment. I think the females at Melbourne and Taronga are probably exercised around the zoos too? Thats a help too. Also the larger the group, the more enrichment there is from social interactions, so the elephants can sort of entertain themselves. As Western Plains has African elephants, I wonder if Taronga/Western Plains will suffer the 'one way' elephant virus which can pass from African to Asian elephants? It doesn't effect the African eles but can transmit to Asians and kill their calves. Very few zoos over here keep both species nowadays. I don't know how the virus travels but I don't think the two species need direct contact. Howletts zoo has African elephants, but Port Lympne(who have only Asians) lost a 2 year old Asian calf from this virus- transmitted from one park to the other by keeper or foodstuffs/ hay or what? Port Lympne gave up with their Asian elephants after this latest failure.
"Port Lympne gave up with their Asian elephants after this latest failure." Are you saying that Port Lympne are no longer breeding elephants?
yep, the virus threat is one reason why the asian elephant breeding program cant be based in dubbo. this is a point the zoo never raised in its arguments-and it probably should have...
the zookeepers at dubbo (and myself as a visitor) has to get dressed top to bottom, and walk in 2 dis-infection baths, just to move from 1 ele house to another. although there is limited contact with the asian, there is full unprotected contact with asians.
sorry yes i meant africans, dubbo has 5 elephants, 2 asian heman male 48, and burma female 51, she is abitch, so therefore no1 has ever gone in with her, she was also a loan from bullens, on breeding loan about 30 years ago. and 3 africans, all female, all ages 30-40, as caught in wild no exact dates or ages. the keepers have full unlimited contact ith these 3 girls, and fence contact with the 2 asians, they now present fett fro treatmeant and press bodies aginst fence for examination (thou neither have serious problems, only arthritus due to age i believe that is scott smith feeding cuddles, next to her is cheri and last is the matriach YUm Yum
melbournes elephant facilities my only issue with melbournes elephant exhibit has been the size. the actual facilities are excellent!!! both the bull and much larger cow barn, have small holding yards behind them for the elephants. they appear not have any water features and are more just to have an outdoor, off exhibit area if need be. i am actually keen to see the giraffe enclosure demolished (heratage listed for what i don't know!!!) and redeveloped into another larger elephant paddock. this would be simple as there is direct elephant access here from the back of the bull exhibit, where a gate is located that back onto the service road that runs between the elephants and the GFA.
