Join our zoo community

Mogo Zoo New white cubs for mogo!!!!

Discussion in 'Australia' started by Zoo_Boy, 29 Sep 2006.

  1. Zoo_Boy

    Zoo_Boy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    26 Nov 2005
    Posts:
    1,462
    Location:
    Australia
  2. Zoo_Boy

    Zoo_Boy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    26 Nov 2005
    Posts:
    1,462
    Location:
    Australia
  3. Jarkari

    Jarkari Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    24 Aug 2006
    Posts:
    1,525
    Location:
    Orange, NSW
    "Purr" and "Joe"

    Does anybody else think that the naming of these cubs is going too far. i know zoos require the sponsorship but i think having thge peugot badge on collars around the cubs necks during the unveiling is enough... PurrJoe? personally i think that's a bit too far. But I'm sure very good for the zoo.
     
  4. Monty

    Monty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    15 Jul 2006
    Posts:
    914
    Location:
    Finley NSW
    I had not noticed untill you pointed it out. I quite like the peugot deisel 307.

    I dont realy like advertising but if it is not too overwelming and it helps a cash strapped zoo I'm not too concerned.
     
  5. Jarkari

    Jarkari Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    24 Aug 2006
    Posts:
    1,525
    Location:
    Orange, NSW
    hey, sorry if this has been spokne about in another thread but from what I remember mogo should never have had white cubs with the first breeding which must make Magigwana the cubs father right. I remember Steve Van Mil saying they would be bred with tawnies to spread the genes. i thought that was the point of having them over here. to increase the gene pool now all they have achieved is limiting the lions they can breed with here.. 7 white lions in one zoo. don't disagree with conserving them but it makes me wonder if the breeding of the white lion cubs helped considerably in obtaining the money from peugot... nice cars... Also a mate of mine in South Africa runs the white lion Studbook and he was under the impression that the zoo would be returning tawny lions carrying white gene to south africa as they have a higher chance os establishing a pride and surviving to rear white cubs. but anyway i'm rambling now so I'll shutup. just curious as to what ya'll think about it.
     
  6. Monty

    Monty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    15 Jul 2006
    Posts:
    914
    Location:
    Finley NSW
    That is interesting that they want tawny lions with the white gene. I presume you ment they are going to release them in the wild. How do released lions do are there areas to release them. I would have thought that areas without lions would be because of lack of habitat or food and conflict with people, domestic stock etc.
     
  7. Nigel

    Nigel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23 Jan 2004
    Posts:
    736
    Location:
    Wellington , New Zealand
    White lions

    Whether they are a ridiculous anomily or otherwise is something I will let other people debate .
    My guess ( and it is only a guess ) is that Mogo sees the white lion thing as a fund raising venture .
    I dont know about lions in Australian zoos , but most of the lions in zoos in NZ are of the tawny/yellow colour . If a zoo displayed a white lion , alot of people will visit the zoo to see this animal .
    If alot of people visit the zoo , they usually pay an entrance fee . This will bring in a few more $$s than usual .

    If a zoo hopes to display some animal that needs a new enclosure built , it needs to raise the money somehow . Thats the main reason why Wellington Zoo has been very run down -- it was severely cash strapped .

    If the zoo gets the opportunity to display an animal that is not seen all that frequently in zoos in that country , it can run an advertising campaign and attract more visitors , who will bring in more $$s .

    Providing that the zoo cares for its animals , including any anomilies , I dont worry too much about it ( unless they hope to do serious breeding of it )
    If the zoo is smart enough , they can educate some of the people about animal anomilies , inbreeding , etc and some of thge problems that are facing the world with conservation issues
     
  8. patrick

    patrick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    29 Nov 2004
    Posts:
    2,449
    Location:
    melbourne, victoria, australia
    nigel,
    no doubt that you are 100% correct about why mogo decided to get the white lions. the zoo has a good reputation for their history with big cats and they wanted a drawcard that was unique to them.

    however the issue with the white lions is that no other australian zoo houses them or has any interest in displaying them. in fact as zoopro mentioned, other ARAZPA zoos have actually made an effort to delete any lions that even carry the white gene. once again its the problem of zoos spending money on creating valuable spaces for animals that will not be integrated into a program with any other zoos animals.

    by no means is mogo the only zoo that has done this and no doubt will it be that last. i guess the situation is magified somewhat by the fact that this isn't a different species either - we have a regional program for african lions but mogo has potentially dropped out of their involvement so they can house a group with no value to the program.

    i understand why they did it. its just that personally, i'm not really that into it....and i can see how it was unhelpful to the african lion program.
     
  9. ZooPro

    ZooPro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    9 Mar 2006
    Posts:
    673
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Pat, Pat, Pat.... you are so unkind. What about them doing thier bit to save a species (ok, color phase) not otherwise represented in the region????
     
  10. patrick

    patrick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    29 Nov 2004
    Posts:
    2,449
    Location:
    melbourne, victoria, australia
    damn! there i go again! i'm such an absolute %^&*@!

    i shouldn't be so shortsighted. maybe one day the timbavati can once again be filled to the brim with wild white lions - the way it used to be! ;)

    didn't i say i'de get off this thread? sorry zoopro's off encouraging me again!
     
  11. MARK

    MARK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    7 May 2005
    Posts:
    3,509
    Location:
    Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
    Pat while i agree with most of what you say on this forum does it really matter if a small zoo in oz has a few white Lions, if it generates public interest about lions and the problems they face today it has to be a good thing, also it does not hurt the zoo with the extra cash coming though the gate. While I am 100% against the breeding of animals like (man made)Tigons Ligers ect I dont see a real problem in having a few lions with white fur, they still have yellow eyes, this colour phaze happened in Nature so having a few around is not going to do much harm, hope you can see my point.
     
  12. ZooPro

    ZooPro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    9 Mar 2006
    Posts:
    673
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    One of the problems I see with this is there are now six big cat spaces, and six lots of resources (food, keeper time etc.) that could otherwise have been spent on a managed large cat species that the region's zoos desperately need additional spaces for to maintain our already small regional poplations - sumatran tigers, snow leopards etc. In my mind, this is just a waste of space and resources.

    I agree, it's brought in a few extra sponsorpship dollars for Mogo, but in the scheme of the costs associated with importing the animals in the first place, and exporting (?) the young back to South Africa, I'm betting it wasn't a huge amount of sponsorship.
     
    Last edited: 19 Feb 2007
  13. MARK

    MARK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    7 May 2005
    Posts:
    3,509
    Location:
    Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
    And what of Western plains zoo going against their regional plan with the importation of Indian rhinos in our region is going to made them appear in a lesser light, I think not.
     
  14. ZooPro

    ZooPro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    9 Mar 2006
    Posts:
    673
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Well, that's debateable, but they do have somewhat more space and resources avaialable than Mogo does.
     
  15. MARK

    MARK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    7 May 2005
    Posts:
    3,509
    Location:
    Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
    I agree they do have more space but that not the point here the point is they went against the regional plan and i for one am glad they did, zoo planners dont always get it right, as we have seen witha number of species over the years.
     
  16. boof

    boof Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 Jan 2005
    Posts:
    1,225
    Location:
    Nyngan,nsw,australia
    King cheetah

    What does everyone think of the king cheetah. Should Canberra be displaying this type of cheetah or should they concentrate on "normal" cheetahs. Is it any different to Mogo displaying and breeding white lions? Also for a long time Taronga had a white tiger on display. That enclosure could have been used to house a breeding pair of sumartran tigers. My opinion is that if an animal is being displayed to draw in the crowds, then it is contributing to help the zoo meet it's running costs. Private zoos like Mogo and Canberra, I believe need to have something a little different to attract people from the major zoos. I went to Canberra to see the King cheetah. Maybe other people would do the same thing.
     
  17. MARK

    MARK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    7 May 2005
    Posts:
    3,509
    Location:
    Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
    You are right boof, all zoos need draw cards as I have been told buy a number of zoo directors over the years and the smaller zoos dont get the funding as do some of our major state zoos, as i said before if a king cheetah or white lion can help get the interest of the public and are educated about these species when they visit the zoos its not a bad thing. Money is important to all zoos with smaller ones even more so.
     
  18. patrick

    patrick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    29 Nov 2004
    Posts:
    2,449
    Location:
    melbourne, victoria, australia
    sure, no doubt having the only white lions in australia - a whole pride of them, is a big attaction for mogo. and there is an argument that if it attracts additional patrons to the zoo then there is an oportunity to spread the conservation message to more people.

    and would like to point out that there are many, many more negative things that come before zoos displaying aberrant colour morphs ;)....

    however, i do want to remind everyone just one last time that whilst white lions are a natural product, they are not naturally a successful one. the same goes for white tigers (being a king cheetah on the other hand, i suspect poses no major disadvantages as they whilst still rare, appear to have been a little more common in the wild compared with white lions and tigers). had people not captured white tigers and lions and brought them into captivity i have every inclination that the morph would have been likely to disappear completely in the wild or at best remain a very unual oddity that pops up once in a blue moon and dies soon after. remember the genes only really survive any legnth of time becuse regular coated indiviuals carry the genes with no physical effects and at no disadvantage.

    whilst unlike white tigers white lions are a purebred subspecies, we are still duplicating a gene for our own benefit. the founder stock for white lions is pretty small and there is a fair bit of inbreeding going on to create these animals..
     
  19. Coquinguy

    Coquinguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    30 Aug 2005
    Posts:
    1,765
    Location:
    australia
    i dislike it when zoos stray from the regional collection planning principles. although if mogo thinks that by having white lions they can become more economically viable good on them. but i wish they'd drop the conservation rhetoric and just come out and say that its to attract people ;)
     
  20. Coquinguy

    Coquinguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    30 Aug 2005
    Posts:
    1,765
    Location:
    australia
    although white lions do represent a good opportunity for Peurgoet to display its punative interest in conservation