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Discussion in 'General Zoo Discussion' started by Jarkari, 14 Dec 2006.

  1. Jarkari

    Jarkari Well-Known Member

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    Don't get too excited. I just wanted to ask a few questions.
    If you were looking to build a zoo what part of Australia would you think would be most suited? Both climatically and for visitor numbers?

    What kind of animals would you want to see in a zoo?
    (if there are animals you think would have some great difficulty getting into the country please include them but indicate the problems)

    Anything that you think a zoo could do to be the best?

    Thanks guys, will be helping more than you know.
     
  2. Zoo_Boy

    Zoo_Boy Well-Known Member

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    western australia neeeds anothe rmajor zoo, and i think darwin needs another with alot of exotic, though not good for animals.
     
  3. jay

    jay Well-Known Member

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    The northern coast of nsw needs a Mogo type zoo. The xisting Coffs Harbour zoo could be really transformed. Tasmania, either hobart or launceston. It would be great if Brisbane could have a state zoo but the Australia Zoo is too close and I think Alma will eventually have to close.
     
  4. Zoo_Boy

    Zoo_Boy Well-Known Member

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    i still think weather wise nsw or vic
     
  5. patrick

    patrick Well-Known Member

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    why on earth do you think that the weather of NSW or victoria is better suited to (presumably) exotic wildlife than darwin?
     
  6. ZooPro

    ZooPro Well-Known Member

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    Surely it makes more sense to either pick a location where you can get the land, that's not too close to other zoos, and easy for tourists/locals to get to, and then select species suited to that climate, OR, work out what species you want to hold, and then find some land in an area with suitable climate?
     
  7. Coquinguy

    Coquinguy Well-Known Member

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    a new zoo in W.A

    making another zoo in western australia is a great idea but if you consider the state from a human geography perspective then any potential 'new zoo' owner would find themselves facing some pretty tough competition from perth zoo. perth zoo is a mighty fine place, located in the middle of the population centre.
    most of western australia's population lives in perth-1.3 million-and perth zoo is already australia's most popular zoo (based on 1998 statistics perth zoo attracted the most people relative to the size of the city)...
    the only other major population centres are in the south-west around albany, margaret river...and by eastern state stndards these places arent big.
    so any new zoo in western australia would need to be close to perth and completely different, such as a safari park like melbourne zoo and weribee, or a small mogo style establishment in the south-west-big enough to attract crowds but small enough to sustain itself through the peaks and troughs of domestic tourism...
    and finally, one point to remember is perth zoos financial viability. up until fairly recently perth zoo needed the state govt. to bail it out wit funding for its master plan.
    my point is western australia-i feel-is probably still too small for two zoos.
     
  8. Zoo_Boy

    Zoo_Boy Well-Known Member

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    australia has such a small population, when we look at the us, (though it does have 300 000 people) they have some sort of zoo every 100 km, its amazing each state there, all have 3-7 zoos, its fantastic, but do you think this is to many?
     
  9. jay

    jay Well-Known Member

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    as northern coastal NSW and Tasmania lack any exhotic animal animal zoos they to me would ne the most obvious.
     
  10. Zoo_Boy

    Zoo_Boy Well-Known Member

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    i think northern nsw as well, you have major population centres, such as newcastle, (but i mean 1 or 2 hours above newcastle) and all the holidayers going to foster/tuncurry, port macaquarie, and even tourists comming down from gold coast and brisbane if not to far, and if the zoo has a large range and the big aniamls, people wont mind travelling 1 or 2 hrs. good idea jay.

    i wish tasmania would have a nice little zoo, but as i here its not great. climate wise, especially for breeding alot of animals, it would have to be a display educational zoo - which is really really needed there for exotics.

    but please do correct me, i have never been to the island, so it could bve ok in certain months
     
  11. patrick

    patrick Well-Known Member

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    priorities...

    jarkari,

    i think its great that you are interested in building a zoo here in australia, and i think this forum is a valuable tool in getting an insight about the issue and as a sort of "think tank" for ideas. obviously you should feel free to talk openly about hypothetical and ideal scenarios and by no means is asking your fellow forum memebers for ideas on location a bad idea...

    but forgive me when i say i feel that you are getting way ahead of yourself...
    since you have joined the forum you have indicated your desire to get your hands on just about every exotic animal in australia (or new zealand) and talked of importing white lions from contacts in africa. you have indicated that you are in advanced discussions with different parks about aquiring primates and offereing circus owners money for their elephants. you actually are considering importing an african elephant from new zealand!!

    but then again, not only do you not have an existing location for your zoo, you don't even have any ideas as to where this location will be!!!!

    who are these finacial backers of yours? i personally wouldn't invest the presumably millions of dollars required on a person with no clear business plan and no understanding of the realities surrounding the industry..

    i mean, from memory you said you made an offer of a million dollars for the stardust circus elephants and yet you haven't even paid the measly $50 for a individual membership at ARAZPA!!!!!

    an ARAZPA membership would give you access to much of the most important information you'll need about the industry and the goings on.

    i think your priorities are a litle outta whack!

    forgive me, because i think its safe for me to say your dream of building a zoo is one we all share, but in a non-malicious way...

    before you talk to anyone else about importing lions or elephants from overseas, designing exhibits, or offering people money for animals (i can only imagine the sorts of conversations you are having with people in sri lanka), work out a serious business plan. work out were you are going to locate this business, what are the local regulations in that area? do you have the vital support from others in the industry? what do you know about the industry? how many workers will you need to care for an elephant? what will their salaries be? what will that cost be per year? whats your projected revenue?

    i've bitten my toungue somewhat cos i've wanted to give you a chance to demonstrate your seriousness, but come on man - get real!!
     
  12. ZooPro

    ZooPro Well-Known Member

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    Hey Patrick and Jarkari, Pat, I couldn't have said it better mate - spot on.

    Jarkari, you really need to think about what you are saying and thinking about doing - have a look at the number of half-thought out small zoos that are either doing it really tough, or have gone down the gurgler here in Australia. We don't need to name them, we are all aware of the private zoos that bite of way more than they can chew, and make a right mess up of it. We certainly don't need any more of these.

    And who suffers most?
    • The private owners - certainly, both financially and mentally.
    • The animals they try to take care of, often for little valid reason other than an incorrect notion of making money, or some vague idea of having a load of exotic pets, and being really "special" people.
    • The other zoos in the region, who send animals to these small zoos, often to see them poorly mismanaged.
    I could not agree with Patrick more - I've also been watching your topics and postings on here, and mate, take some advice from one who's been around the industry for many years - think really good and hard about why, how, and the ongoing consequences. Unless you can do it properly, don't bother.

    One small point I might mention in opposition to Patrick though - this forum is a great place for zoo-based discussion, but it's primarily amongst a lot of very interested people (dare I say zoo freaks? :) ), but apart from one or two lurkers, most of the forum members have never worked for a zoo (2 weeks work experience isn't working for a zoo), and there's loads of great ideas here, but as Pat suggested - talk wider, and investigate further.

    And keep going back and reading zoo-boy's thread about Mogo not having the money to finish or display chimps - they bit of far more than they can chew. Are the chimps there any better off right now than they were while they were at Bullens? Not really. All the best intentions in the world don't make a zoo mate. Lots and lots of thought, and a truckload of money do.

    My 2 cents worth
     
    Last edited: 16 Dec 2006
  13. Jarkari

    Jarkari Well-Known Member

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    Thankyou you two for your input.
    Firstly I posted this thread not because I want to find the perfect location or the best animals but just to see what you thought (location has been decided and compared to just aboiut every zoo in australia the animal list is quite small).
    I have been working on this for 4 years now and to be told that I haven't thought about it is quite painful. I would never ever consider commencing construction unless I knew I had the budget to build and run the property for a period of time. I am in the process of developing an information package with alot of info on my plans.
    I have been in touch with AQIS, EAPA, NSW DPI and so many other organisations at great expense to myself (calling from Sri Lanka) regarding the African Elephant in New Zealand and I have made my own decisions regarding her based on the information provided to me.
    I think before comments like those are thrown on the thread it might be worth conatcting the person that posted it. I know I know little about what is involved in establishing a zoo which is why I have hired a zoo consultant who has been advising me all the way and the zoos he has been involved with are now all very very successful and not lacking the finances, maybe mogo could look into hiring him, I know I love animals and would sooner die than cause any harm to them. I am still interested in hearing what you think of the idea of a new zoo but I may keep information on what I am doing a little more private. Still thankyou for being honest
     
  14. ZooPro

    ZooPro Well-Known Member

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    Hi Jarkari, I'm glad you didn't take the comments personally - they were meant to be helpful, and it certainly sounds like you've been doing some homework, so you must know what's involved.

    It sounds like you've decided on NSW for your zoo - are you planning on building it near Orange? If so, you'll face competition from Dubbo of course, so you might want to plan a completely different experience than Dubbo. Their visitor numbers have been falling over the pastcouple of years - people don't seen to be travelling out that way, so you might want to think about an alternative location, if you had Orange in mind.

    Just out of curiosity, who is your consultant? ZooWorks?
     
  15. patrick

    patrick Well-Known Member

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    jarkari, with the exception of the standard, i believe the loaction of your new zoo is going to be absolutely critical to either its success or its failure. personally if i was to build a zoo myself, i would look for a suitable location that was not close to any other potential zoo competitors, but very close to another tourist attraction. cashing in on an existing tourism industry is much easier than attempting to create one for yourself.

    as zoopro said, you might want to think about offering a very different experience to your visitors. that would help you distinguish yourself from your competitors. australia zoo has successfully made itself as much an irwin theme park as it is a zoo, and whilst in the future we will no doubt see a much lesser emphasis on this, it was a stratedgy that made the zoo what it was.

    so try and come up with a different style of experincing things, if thats possible and design all exhibits to reflect that....
     
  16. Zoo_Boy

    Zoo_Boy Well-Known Member

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    from what i have heard (most of you may hagve gathered i have been working with jakari for a while), that this zoo, will offer the most foremost for animals, i am not sure if it has been brought up, but to begin, or as a starter, it will house retired circus, and cruely treated/housed animals.

    these will be off display except for lions and a few tigers i beleive, and jumbo, the rest if i am to beleive will be abck of house, for private tours, and some of our animals earmarked have been hand raised, so entering with aniamls may be an option (lets not discuss on this thread the legistics of this).

    secondly it will be a breeding santcuary, and i carnt metion what, thats for jarkari to mention, but from a basic list, it is UNBELEIVABLE. large cats of many have figured, and much more, offering an amazing insight into aniamals living in near natural conditions, on large acreages. from first discussion, it was to be built on a large rural property, but as discussion continues, it will need to be near a populus, as a retirement santcuary to remain private simply wouldn't generate funds. nor on that rally a breeding sanctary.

    for the visitor it should be fantastic, tropical plantings for jungle exhibits, with thai arciterture will deliver a visitor to asia, or a wide savannahs to emprase sri lanka, and africa. i am still trying to tell jarkari to not to mock rock and major arcitectual doings at present as i believe they to be a drain on resorces and can be easily be added later if money is there. for the common zoo visitor to an open range zoo, the use of mock rocks is useless, they are there to see animals, and be totally immersed, minus a few plantings around viewing.

    i will let jarkari tell the rest, but IT WILL BE AMAZING!!!

    whats more is the fact that a lot of animals breed will be able to be released back to the wild, as the park will have semi wild animals (cliche) on large forested 2 acre lots. and the master vision for the park will be that of sustaining a population of captive aniamls on australian soil, whislt operating with, or owning parks around the world in sri lanka, thailand africa, for animals to be released back to wild

    and again money money money, from prior contacts with jarkari, he has mnay backers and the project if footings found will be worth $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ alot, and i have no doubt that JARKARI RETIREMENT AND BREEDING SANCTUARY will become a world leader in the breedinga nd housing of exotic wildlife, and the relaese of captive individuals back to the wild.

    jarkari has told me of his staff line up, and it sounds very impressive. 2007 will be a prosperous year in the zoological community of australia with the addition of JARKARI PARK !:D
     
  17. Jarkari

    Jarkari Well-Known Member

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    Still Unsure.

    In the future I will release a bit more information on my plans but for now. This project will be a long time in the making and could be a few years before we see anything result of this, I have learned over the last few years as Pat and ZooPro know that this is a long hard process and has already been four years in the making. If ther are specific questions anyone wants to ask me please ask in private mesasges as I have been informed that releasing too much information can be detrimental to my efforts and have negative effects on my joining any zoological institutions. I have been in long discussions with many people and establishing any kind of animal park is a long hard process, especially with limited funds. Which is why I am always continuing to attempt to raise more and more constantly to ensure the welfare of any animals in my care. As for exhibuts I will tell you that there will be no mock rock, but the facilities will also not be completely open, I don't believe that you need to be free of fences for the animals to be happy, however viewing areas in some parts will allow the public to have unrestricted views of animals. That will do for now.
    Thanks
     
  18. Nigel

    Nigel Well-Known Member

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    zoo site in NSW

    Although I am not an Australian , if I was going to build a zoo in NSW , I might look at Albury .
    As zoopro ( I think ) said , if a new zoo gets built near Orange , WPZ will put up a lot of competition for the sake of their own survival .
    My reasons for (hypothetically) guessing Albury are
    1 It is not in a neighboring city that already has a decent zoo
    2 Is on the main highway and rail link between NSW and Victoria
    3 As well as being a reasonable sized city in its own right ( Albury and Wodonga ) , it is also within coo ee of Waggawagga and Shepparton , as well as smaller towns
    4 Plenty of flattish land available that is reasonably well watered ( ie Not in a desert )

    Another place could be Hunter Region (?)

    Obviously Jakari has some sense , in the fact that he has paid for the services of a zoo consultant . From reading his previous posts though , it just seemed as if it was some pipe dream , and it is understandable why Patrick urged him to " get real " I also found it strange that someone was interested in buying an African elephant , and then asked where we would have the zoo located in Australia . But I held my tongue as I was interested to see where this thread would lead .
    My understanding is that most of us are zoo fans , and only a few of us in the forum have actually worked in one . I am a big zoo fan , but I have never worked in any . I have thoughts and ideas ( and dreams ) but I have never been involved in zoo planning or management . I am just a zoo fan ( and probably the same for 90 % of this forum .)
    I think Patrick is right in suggesting that you ( Jakari ) become a member of ARANZPA , for the benefit of your zoo development plans . Perhaps you are one already .
    If you have done all your homework ( and I will not make an assumption one way or another ) I wish you -- Jakari -- all the best with the development of your project . I certainly do not oppose a well researched and planned new zoo opening up in our region of the world .... I just dont want to see a plethora of 3rd grade menagerie style zoos ..
     
  19. Zoo_Boy

    Zoo_Boy Well-Known Member

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    yea albury wadonga is great, i thought when i was there a few months abck it needs a zoo, but since that it has skipped my mind, yea albury would be fantastic, a centre of 80 odd thousand and on main links between melb, sydney and many otehr regional centres, though for a large park, it may need to be a few km out of town, as all properties on the outskirts are small, and would take just to much to buy out individually.
     
  20. Monty

    Monty Well-Known Member

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    As a sort of local to the Albury regon (140km) there is no other major competion from any major zoos in the regon. Another big advantage could be access to water. High security water could be purchased, expensive though. This would allow water features and irrigation for herbivores pasture and other forage.