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Paignton Zoo Paignton News 2020

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by Brum, 2 Jan 2020.

  1. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    The wild population reintroduced into Hawaii is stageringly low and far from sustainable I am afraid.
     
  2. FBBird

    FBBird Well-Known Member

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    .....but something over 2000, sufficient for its recent downgrading to a Threatened from Endangered. Not bad, when the total world population was down to less than fifty birds in the late 1940s.
     
  3. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly what I meant!

    It is far from a robust self-sustaining population and look at historical distribution and numbers before humankind started impacting the species and creating the conditions that made it almost go extinct in the wild in the first place.

    In my view as conservationists we should never be content with recovery in numbers in the low thousands of any endangered taxon full stop.

    Let us leave the discussion at that (otherwise a move into its own thread is the logical course of action).
     
  4. Andrew Swales

    Andrew Swales Well-Known Member

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    Not even a taxa whose natural populations was never as high as this, such as perhaps the Laysan Teal?
     
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  5. Andrew Swales

    Andrew Swales Well-Known Member

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    Please excuse the predictive spell-checker on my new (and very first) lap-top
     
  6. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    The current population estimated at 500-700 individuals on 10KM2.

    As to population numbers: Do you mean before the slaughter by man and the introduction of rabbits to the Laysan archipelago?
     
  7. Andrew Swales

    Andrew Swales Well-Known Member

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    ... you choose! - but why draw the line there? Why stop there and not go back further? - because presumably the population on a newly formed volcanic island would have either been zero, or just a few wind blown stragglers of another species, and certainly well below a few thousand.
    My point was that an arbitrary figure of a 'few thousand', followed by a 'full stop' was somewhat ambiguous.. Laysan was just illustrative.
     
  8. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    Andrew, I mean realistically as in historical evidence based. This infers not when an island first developed, but when the ecosystem was by present-day standards still intact and the island floras and faunas would have been in a somewhat pristine state (unravished by the hands of mankind and extractive development and destruction).

    Probably we would be looking at the early 1800's or even only at the onset of the first "discoveries" by North civilisations (the latter for lack of a better word ...). It has most recently been made into a science of its own.
     
  9. FBBird

    FBBird Well-Known Member

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    I think you and I are coming at this from slightly different perspectives. You are quite rightly concerned that Nene numbers in the wild still need support, and are nowhere near pre-colonisation levels. To illustrate where I'm coming from, let me share my Fantasy Zoo Exhibit, signed No Second Chances, and comprising three enclosures....
    1/ Empty enclosure, signed 'Dodo'. Enclosure contains appropriate terrain & vegetation, and graphics explaining that, although the species was kept in Europe, nobody tried to breed it, and certainly nobody considered the possibility of extinction.
    2/ Empty enclosure, signed 'Passenger Pigeon'. Appropriate habitat, graphics explaining how the species was bred in numbers in Europe, to the extent that some people had so many they were letting the damn things out.......a few decades later and it was gone.
    3/ Enclosure for a pair of Nene! Graphic explains that this species was being bred in Europe at the same time as the Passenger Pigeon, but the stock was allowed to dwindle, and the last one perished in the Second World War. Fortunately a small captive flock on Hawaii provided foundation stock for a Wildfowl Trust propagation initiative, and we know the rest. Here there WAS a second chance!
    My feelings about the current Nene situation are coloured by a tremendous relief that we still have this wonderful species and it didn't go the way of the other two. Obviously we still have a long way to go, but at least we still have the thing! See where I'm coming from?
     
  10. TriUK

    TriUK Well-Known Member

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    Exquisite response - what a great idea! As it happens, Paignton have just the space available to create your vision!!
     
  11. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    I understand where most are content having managed to save a species from inevitable extinction by mankind. It should be clear from my discourse I am nowhere near content with just that and a nowhere near safe population of a threatened taxon. Further, to look at our Life on Planet Earth being content with the current state of affairs with our environment, biodiversity, climate change, pollution, habitat destruction and species extinctions and threats, hence being content is the anomaly and anathema to my world views: I remain happy in this guilty as charged. If and when we have fixed and repaired our collective destructive behaviours I will be contented, but only then. And I do think we all need to take our responsibilities in this very seriously as we are all partially guilty for the very sorry state our only livable Planet is in.

    So far, so good .... separate threat please!
     
  12. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    I think that is an excellent idea for a display. Some zoo somewhere should definately take it up.

    And (without looking it up) the name of the chap who had the captive Nenes in Hawaii was....?
     
  13. gentle lemur

    gentle lemur Well-Known Member

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    Like a dangerous doctor's? (I'm now going to look it to check).
     
  14. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying to remember it without looking but haven't got it yet...
     
  15. gentle lemur

    gentle lemur Well-Known Member

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    Not Crippen :)
     
  16. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    Herbert Shipman, but I had to look it up...

    Next question. Peter Scott's initial pair imported from Shipman's small flock turned out to be both females. What was the name of the gander Shipman sent to join them in order to start Slimbridge's success?
     
  17. gentle lemur

    gentle lemur Well-Known Member

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    It was a Hawaiian name, I think from a famous or legendary king - I'm taking a wild guess at Kamehameha. But that is just as likely to be a wrasse or a honeycreeper :confused:
     
  18. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    Right on the money...You are on form today GL. :D
     
  19. gentle lemur

    gentle lemur Well-Known Member

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    ˜˜I'm surprising myself :D
    I just checked the Wildfowl Trust Annual Report for 1951-2 (on-line). The females were called Emma and Kaiulani (both Hawaiian queens) and 9 goslings were reared in 1952, the year after Kamehameha arrived.
     
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  20. Drago

    Drago Well-Known Member

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    Visited yesterday and was surprised at the amount of works and/ or improvements going on. I try to visit monthly, my last visit being late juanuary. February storms non stop and sadly couldn't visit. The refurbished Maned Wolf enclosure is progressing fast. The old enclosure was still up and untouched on my prior visit. Now all the trees are gone, the enclosure is almost twice as big, the off showing area looks like it will be incorporated into the whole enclosure now. Also it will be viewable from the main drive, rather than the back path which typically has lesser traffic. Never knew the Wolf house was as big as it is The trees were that dense. Only worry is the new fences are tall and deep sunk chain link, may make it harder to take photo's of the Wolves now - hopefully a viewing tower like by the tigers would be built? Signs up every explaining what it going on. Nice to see work going on the Maned Wolves. Up through to the old anoa enclosure has been looking drab and desperate for renovation for years and it is finally happening! Would love to see those nasty dreary enclosures go (Tapir/Ostrich) Miserable rusty bars and drab grey prison block like houses - I mean renovation, not completely removal of the species.

    Takin of course moved to quarry. I far better location for them and a knew species coming soon to their old enclosure with signs explaining everything! At last after a rather depressing few years the Zoo looks like it is going up and up!