@gentle lemur you must have been unlucky with the hunting dogs, they're usually pretty showy. With the inside of the Casson now closed, and the death of the female, I doubt anyone will be seeing tapir for some time Tiger Territory at present isn't working as well as it can do, housing a single, decidedly edgy tiger. When it was home to the successful breeding pair it worked very well as an enclosure I found, especially when there were cubs (which Melati and Jae-Jae were very good at providing!) Land of the Lions just doesn't work. I've tried to give it the benefit of the doubt, but the lions don't show well, they still prefer the old corner of the old half of the enclosure. ZSL could have just filled in the moat of the old enclosure, put up glass barriers, and significantly increased the available space for the lions, without creating the massive enclosure they now have, which the lions don't utilise. Maybe if they had brought in a completely new pride, without already favoured spaces in the old enclosure, things might be different, but they kept the girls they had, who were already established in the old enclosure and show little sign of willingly wanting to use the new space. If anything, LotL shows how much theme-ing can restrict a space once it is in place. If say ZSL had just revamped the old Cat Terrace, sans-ethnographic-themes, it could have been used for any number of different species. As it is, they're now tied in to Indian animals for that area (although, that hasn't stopped them so far, *cough*dwarf mongoose*cough*vultures). I also think the gorillas show poorly, unless you are lucky enough to get a spot at the windows at a quiet time. The island is poorly utilised, can I can't help but wonder if more of a canopy (artificial or otherwise) might make the island more attractive to the gorillas. One thing I do think London could do with is more noisy animals. London is a surprisingly quiet zoo, the sounds only really coming from the bird collection. Just the addition of something noisy and active, such as sealions, would really add to the atmosphere. I do appreciate London's small mammal collection, and if they could build on that I'm sure they would do well. Build on their success with Madagascan species, bring in some small cats or canids (they may not always show well, but small cute things are popular!). I would love to see London go into Giant Otters - active, noisy, showy, and an easy animal for most visitors to identify. If they could put them on the North Bank somehow I'm sure more people would go over there.
I had presumed when it was announced the Lion area would be revamped, that they would do just that, fill in the moat, sand and rock floor the extra space created and erect a glass barrier. But they left the space-wasting watermoat and constructed all that extra themed area instead. And animals already habituated to their former enclosure space can be a problem exhibit -wise, preferring what they already know as the Lions here demonstrate. I agree that a fresh pride might have used the new area better. Like gorillas everywhere, they only use the outdoors for short periods, even in good weather. A covered area would help, that's what they don't like about the 'outside'. While the indoor viewing with the covered glass and ugly sacking 'blinds'to give them privacy is now the worst I've seen anywhere. As Ffbird has commented previously, there used to be three iconic sounds in particular associated with ZSL; the Fish eagles, Sonnerat's Jungle fowl and Sealions. To my mind, the loss of the Sealions was a major mistake, with their noise and activity they rather represented the heart of the zoo. Its been a silent place since they left.
If the lions aren't even using all their space, then they should get in either striped hyenas or sloth bears and do a rotation schedule similar to what Denver's doing
I think if one was tasked with doing Land of the Lions over again from the start position of the old Cat Terraces you could certainly work striped hyenas or possibly sloth bears into the plan. However I’m not sure how many of the old big cat indoor quarters remain besides the lion house itself and based on a blue-print of the Cat Terraces before the conversion took place the likely spot for another large predator has been swallowed up by the over-night visitor lodges.
Looking at it with 20/20 vision, that Lion Lodge ain't a hot idea because one can easily just look for a hotel near the zoo at a much lesser cost. It'd be better if they had something like that at Whipsnade along with a shuttle system for London tourists (and our carless brothers and sisters out there) who wanna see elephants and rhinos.
The thing is, spending that kind of money in order to stay in those lodges isn't really a means to an end... it's the end in-and-of itself the point of conspicuous consumption isn't what you are spending a ridiculous amount of money on, it is the fact you are able to spend a ridiculous amount of money in the first place.
They already have something similar with the Whipsnade overnight stays, free entry to London Zoo is included in the price of your stay all that’s missing is the transport links back to Regent’s Park. Really if you’re going to do the overnight stay fad anywhere at ZSL Whipsnade is the place for it - they have the space, the scenery and the big ticket animals. I think ZSL would do well leaning in to that a bit more, invest some real money into restocking Whipsnade’s paddocks, diversifying the collection with a few more exhibits and have it be a place people would want to make the trip up to visit and stay at, rather then letting it dwindle as the “lesser” of the two zoos.
It seems to me that ZSL is slowly heading towards a crisis that while not nearly as dramatic as that in the early 90’s may prove to be far deadlier to them in the longer run. Recently they have spent £3.1m on Tiger Territory, £5.2m on Land of the Lions and about to spend £7.1m on the Snowdon Aviary for Colobus Monkeys. At a combined total of £15.4m it is a considerable amount to spend on a couple of narcoleptics and tree bound simians in an area of the zoo I would guess many visitors don’t even venture over to see. Hamstrung by finite space, an inability to show many megafauna, a slew of dilapidated unusable listed buildings, a dwindling inventory and worst of all a lack of identity as a zoo. They seem unable to raise or spend the huge capital they need to update and reinvigorate the Zoo and brand. Adding Panda Bears would boost short term attendance but I doubt would provide the economic boost that ZSL needs for long term stability. Polar Bears would cost far too much to display adequately. At this time the loss of the Aquarium is a simply a tragedy for ZSL. Space on the ground is at a premium so maybe ZSL needs to build upwards with a build similar to RORA or Monsoon Forest at Chester. In fact thinking about it why not build down as well? Could the Casson be converted into an aquarium or Bat-cave? I would certainly bring back Sea lions as a sister exhibition to the excellent penguin area. What ever ZSL do they need to be careful before anymore wrong footings see them become terminal.
A couple of quick ideas, mostly very simple, see what you think: - Open the gate between the zebras and the giraffe, nice mixed exhibit at no cost. You could maybe add ostriches for a full African Savannah theme. - Move the anteaters to the Mapins for a South American exhibit, with some other species (maned wolves would be a welcome addition but possibly vicuna, capybara or tapirs). With the emus and the wallabies to the now empty reindeer enclosure which would need some inexpensive adjustments. - Howler monkeys for the empty enclosure by the meerkats and otters (not sure what it's called). I think they'd use the enclosure nicely and would add some noise to the zoo
Zebras and giraffes mixed were the original design of that exhibit, hence the gate. I believe they were separated after the zebra began bullying the giraffes. I’ve seen the zebras allowed into the giraffe paddock on occasion since but only after the giraffes have been shut away. There a few different directions they could take the Mappins but using it for a nice Pampas exhibit with the mock-rock Andes in the background would certainly be better then it’s current usage, I have a few thoughts on paths they could take myself. Ultimately though I think the whole of the Terraces will need a drastic overhaul or to come down in the long term. Looking at the big picture since the bears and goats left in the 80s(?) no exhibit has really stuck it out there for very long. Howlers in the Tecton Gorilla House is nice idea!
[QUOTE="At a combined total of £15.4m it is a considerable amount to spend on a couple of narcoleptics and tree bound simians in an area of the zoo I would guess many visitors don’t even venture over to see.[/QUOTE] Surely this is the reason they need to put a big attraction on the north bank, it would attract people over there and then they could add some "side show" enclosures. If you're not going to put animals there because no one goes there you may as well advocate giving the land up.
It makes sense that there's a reason they're not in together, the enclosure is relatively small compared to other mixed Savannah exhibits which could be part of the reason that aggression and bullying built up, with the giraffes having nowhere to escape to. I had the Andes in mind too when thinking of adding a South American theme to the Mappins! What other ideas do you have for the area? And thank you!
I wouldn’t say that Colobus Monkeys in a mixed exhibit are a Surely this is the reason they need to put a big attraction on the north bank, it would attract people over there and then they could add some "side show" enclosures. [/QUOTE] When I visited in the height of a glorious summer in 2013 the North Bank was deserted. Very few people seemed to venture under the tunnel to take a look. I doubt that the revamped Snowden Aviary will attract substantial numbers of people over to look at the Colobus monkeys. Me, I’d go over to look at a flock of sparrows in there. That would mean they’d need to build another mega expensive attraction on that side. I think something like the unrealised African biodome Cheater proposed would do well. They have some African species over that side already Giraffe, Zebra, Okapi and Wild dog. Even adding a boat ride would provide an attraction ZSL doesn’t current have. I would also invest a few thousand in improving the signing around the tunnel to encourage people over there.
@tom1998, thank you for you’re interest! You’ve triggered a bit of an essay I’m afraid. As I see it there are a few different pitches I could make for the Mappins, four that have them restored and still standing and a couple more that have them pulled down and the space used in quite a different way. Disclaimer: as I was never lucky enough to visit the Mappins whilst they still functioned as intended with all the Terraces open to the public a lot of this is based on speculation, especially with regards to the upper Terraces and in particular the indoor housing for the animals. If I’ve gone wrong in my fundamental understanding anywhere I’d be very interested to know. Mappins Restored All of these ideas demand that sufficient repairs are made to the Terraces that extensive building work can be done refitting the upper Terraces, that animals can be accommodated there and that the public can access the pathways. In the interests of convenience we will numbering the separate terraces as follows: Former Goat Hills - the four mountain peaks. Bear Terraces - rear part of the current enclosure. Ground Terraces - the “eye-level” part, currently combined with the Bear Terraces. The Pool - the waterfowl pool that once ran along the bottom of the Terraces forming a sort of moat. Currently in my understanding areas 2-4 are combined into three exhibits - the emu enclosure on the left-hand side, the former kangaroo enclosure on the right and the original wallaby retreat towards the towards the rear. Without further ado: A. Andes Large aviary designed to mirror the Snowden to be constructed over Terrace 1 to create a walkthrough aviary housing Andean condors and king vultures. Terraces 2 and 3 are to be separated from Terrace 4 with a moat and split down the middle. As the sloth bears apparently struggled to acclimatise to the original indoor bear dens new dens are to be constructed on roughly the site of the kangaroo stable and the emu shelter. The level is to be split in two in order to house Andean bears. Either coati or a species of howler monkey may be given access to the bear enclosure. The pool on Terrace 4 is to be remodelled to house South American waterfowl, likely black-necked swan, and as the location of indoor accommodation for the monkeys or coati, acting as their retreat space. ALTERNATIVELY, as the space may be a little tight for a modern bear exhibit keep Terraces 2-4 joined have have a Pampas themed exhibit with vicuna, rhea, anteater and mara. B. Wild China Very much the direction the zoo seems to have nearly gone in with the Mappins. High risk high reward banking on the appeal of the giant panda in a major tourist city to pay for itself. Terrace 1 - Renovated for Himalayan tahr or at a push takin. Terrace 2-4 - with improved barriers a new bear den built on the footprint of the emu enclosure giant pandas are to be accommodated. On the footprint of the kangaroo stable and yard a separate enclosure for red pandas and tufted deer to be constructed running along the right-hand stairway to give the giant pandas cover from view long this side. The principle areas for viewing the giant pandas will be either the panoramic view in front of the pavilion looking up or a viewing gallery built on the skeleton of the original bear dens looking out down the slope of the mountain. C. Asian Highlands Terrace 4 to be separated from the others by a moat. To house red-crowned crane and other species of Central Asian waterfowl. Terraces 1-3 to be combined and reworked into a cat-proofed either by netting over the whole expanse along the lines of Tiger Territory or by the use of a tall piano-wire fence as in Land of the Lions. This enclosure would house either snow leopards or preferably Amur leopards, since ZSL oversees the breeding program for the latter species. The visitor path between Terraces 1 and 2 to be converted into a covered viewing gallery that allows the leopards to safely walk over the visitors heads. This would be the principle way of viewing the leopards with planting obscuring the stair ways on either side. A separate enclosure for yellow-throated marten or perhaps Pallas cat could be constructed on the footprint of the kangaroo stable. D. Mountains of the World No particular regional theming and subject to a lot of variation in species choice. Pool on Terrace 4 to be deepened and extended to form a proper watermoat along the front of the enclosure. The remainder of Terrace 4 to join with Terraces 3 and 2 to form one large grassy paddock housing gelada, rock hyrax and Nubian ibex. The four peaks of Terrace 1 to be divided into several different enclosures with the visitor path weaving around them. The idea I’m leading with would be Peak 1: planted as a bamboo forest for red panda. Peak 2-3: outback themed (with use of internally heated areas?) for rock wallaby. Peak 4: Netted over for kea. But many other relatively small (preferably cold tolerant) montane species could be accommodated in one of these enclosures. Along with any of the above ideas the Aquarium could be converted into essentially a giant bat cave, entered through an aviary that allows the bats access to natural light and fresh air. Inside displays could explore different cave ecosystems around the world - blind cavefish and cave crickets and so forth. Mappins Demolished And suddenly you have a fairly large footprint to work more freely with. In both cases I think it would be cool if parts of the original mountain were salvaged and repositioned as a nod to the history of the area. My pitches for this area would be either: A. An African Savannah theme. Either a more comfortable mixed exhibit with giraffe, zebra and your other typical hoofstock species (though I’d personally be very excited to see some Thompson’s gazelle feature) or else a single species exhibit that sees black rhino return to ZSL. If the former plan is opted for I’d move the savannah hoofstock off the Cottons entirely and allow the space to be given over to the okapi. Rockwork from the original Mappins relocated to the ground can act as kopjes masking separation areas and serving as centrepieces of smaller side enclosures housing species like rock hyrax, porcupine and some species of mongoose. If the park must have meerkats I’d put them here. If we wanted to get even more ambitious we’d be discussing klipspringer. One of these rock centrepieces would make a good anchor point for a new and improved griffon vulture flight aviary as a side exhibit, freeing up the Land of the Lions aviary for some smaller and more regionally authentic species. B. Something inspired by “Russia’s Grizzly Coast” at the Minnesota Zoo in miniature featuring once again Amur leopards and possibly brown bears as another returning ABC species for the zoo. Here I’d have parts of the old mountains representing rocky outcroppings or sea cliffs, again serving to obscure separation areas and act as anchor points for smaller exhibits, once again yellow-throated marten but also certainly a roost for Stellar’s sea eagle. Alternatively instead of either the leopards or the bears a pool could be built to accommodate a species of pinniped. If sourcing either the regionally appropriate northern fur seal or Stellar’s sealion proved difficult I’m sure a concession could be made for California sealions or South American fur seals instead.
I agree with a lot of what redstarsmith has written. However, the simple fact is that until there is a complete sea-change in attitude towards Whipsnade by the ZSL hierarchy it will continue to be the neglected bridesmaid. And shame on them, because the costs involved in investing in Whipsnade would be a mere pittance compared to renovating London.
In terms of Mappins, I like the Africa idea the best. I'd also do traffic estimates based on each part of the zoo and see what's lagging behind.
I would love to know how much it would cost to renovate the Mappins, though I’d imagine it would be eye-watering. I really don’t know how ZSL could dress the figures up to make the investment justified. I imagine it’ll go the same way as the Aquarium.
Apparently £10 million would be needed just to make the Mappins/Aquarium structurally sound and safe to work in. Most of the steel support structure is badly corroded due to 100 years of exposure to a salt environment and the concrete itself is collapsing in chunks.There are off show service areas of the aquarium where the keepers have to wear hard hats due to lumps of concrete falling from the ceiling...Do you want to simply repair and make safe a Very old building or update and modernise and create an inspiring new exhibit based on the existing infrastructure? The latter I think. You can then start to think about costs for upgrading equipment and facilities and for landscaping and public areas. Its a bottomless pit.
I have worked with elderly buildings where the steel is rotting and the concrete falling. Demolish it.
