So it is an order of evolutionarily distinct mammals comprised of one family in which all of the extant species are either vulnerable , endangered or critically endangered due to habitat destruction and hugely unsustainable levels of poaching for the Chinese traditional medicine trade. It strikes me as a group of mammals which given the dire situation they are facing in the wild are ideal candidates for ex-situ captive breeding programes in zoos both Asian and Western. It could be argued that perhaps pangolins are even in a greater need of these kind of programes than megafauna like rhinos , tigers, great apes, elephants etc. Granted , there are difficulties in keeping them alive in captivity but historic examples of conservation interventions show that with decent research undertaken into understanding the ecological requirements of a species the overwhelmingly majority of animals can be maintained and bred in captivity. Recent research has been performed into filling in the gaps of knowledge regarding how to do this for pangolins in captivity so things are slowly improving and of course a period of trial and error has taken place and will do in the future. So in your opinion what are the main barriers to establishing pangolins ex-situ in zoos ?
Reluctance due to past failures combined with a simple lack of interest from many collections. ~Thylo
Someone could be joining this thread and seeing 'Species you hate to see in zoos' and 'pangolins' together in the same thread and wondering just how pretentious we are
Yup, I sure am sick of the latter! I've seen them in every zoo I've been to... but I last visited a zoo 2 years ago.
Agreed , LOL , I was thinking of creating a new thread for the subject actually but I just couldn't resist throwing it out there as I genuinely wonder why this is the case.
I can't help but wonder which of the two is a stronger influence. Out of cynicism of establishments I'm inclined to think that it is likely to be the latter.
I would agree, although there definitely are a few zoos in the US who held pangolins in the past which are reluctant to get them again due to past failures. Additionally, I know there are US zoos who oppose the current program due to the controversial methods they were captured/imported. ~Thylo
I dont know about the methods used to capture or import them but I'm curious to find out more about this. All I can say is that I believe it will ultimately be decided if this move was justifiable based on whether zoos manage to establish viable ex-situ populations, the ball is now firmly in their court. I think scientific or social science research is an undeniably important component of conservation. However, I do worry about the impact of conservationists becoming risk averse as a result of too much operating within very limited and abritary frameworks more related to academia and academic careers (Thinking inside the box) rather than making genuine progress in the field. To some extent I wonder if this in itself is simply the equivalent of tying shoe laces together trying to walk and inevitably tripping themselves up. If you think about it the capture of megafauna like rhino in Africa in the 60's for zoos by conservationists like Ian Player was deemed unethical by some at the time but look at how much it did for the white rhino in the long run.
I remember there being an article written which talked about the specific questionable actions taken in importing the pangolins, but I'm having trouble find it. I don't really want to paraphrase it but I seem to recall in particular there were questions about the legality of the animals' capture and the methods used to determine their diet. ~Thylo
Some zoos do put them into exhibits showcasing Andean fauna ( off the top of my head Thoiry certainly does...), and they work quite well in these situations.
Why guinea pigs, rather than other domestic animals? Various zoos have specimens of wild restless and other wild cavies and guinea pigs could be placed alongside them.
I feel like the only context that domestic species work in is either in petting/riding experiences such as with camels for riding, barnyard animals for petting, and pets for sensory crap because remember, kids learn a lot by touch.
They're easy to keep, beloved by many visitors, can be showcased in entertaining yet cost-effective scenarios (Budapest Zoo's "guinea pig village", guinea pig bridges etc.) and if necessary, you can use them as food for various carnivores. So - why the hate? What I'd like more zoos to do in regard to domestic guinea pigs would be to showcase their proper(!) husbandry to visitors to improve the situation of the many poorly kept pet guinea pigs.
So you don't think camels are important for anything other than riding??? We don't do that in the UK...it's really frowned upon. In fact there's only one place I know of that offers it commercially and that place is a little dodgy from what i've heard. So you don't think domestic bactrians have value in educating the public about the plight of their wild counterparts?
I completely support this, but advertising a domestic Bactrian birth as an ‘endangered’ birth, which I have heard on this site has been done is ridiculous. At least educate people about the difference. By the way, I’m not trying to argue, just sharing my thoughts.
Well I guess I don’t hate but I prefer seeing wild small mammals not pet store animals. But I guess they aren’t that bad
