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Species you hate to see in zoos

Discussion in 'General Zoo Discussion' started by animalszoos, 9 Mar 2017.

  1. Cassidy Casuar

    Cassidy Casuar Well-Known Member

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    No, because it is not something that can easily be proven. I have read and heard enough about the subject to believe that I came to a logical conclusion.
    Young children who want a rabbit or guinea pig as a pet will obviously always want one for a reason. Said children seeing domestic rabbits and guinea pigs at a zoo and thinking that they are cute is a conceivable reason for them wanting one.
     
  2. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member

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    So you think there are no other places where young children can see domestic guinea pigs and rabbits? Something like, you know, pet shops (where they can actually buy them right on the spot)? Or pet expos, breeder club meetings, animal markets or just other people's homes who already keep said species as pets?

    I'm very much aware how many pet rabbits and guinea pigs have to suffer due to bad husbandry. However, I don't think this would change if zoos stopped keeping said species. As previously mentioned, what zoos should actually do is to lead by example and teach their visitors how guinea pigs and rabbits should be kept to fulfill all their needs and let them live a happy life. This, however, would also require many zoos to keep their rabbits and guinea pigs better than they're doing now.
     
    Last edited: 27 Oct 2019
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  3. Cassidy Casuar

    Cassidy Casuar Well-Known Member

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    Where did I suggest that domestic guinea pigs and rabbits can only be seen in zoos?
     
  4. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member

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    Right there:
    You make it sound as if there are no other places where young children can see said species and be tempted to get one.
     
  5. Cassidy Casuar

    Cassidy Casuar Well-Known Member

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    The intended meaning was that zoos contribute to the problem of bad ownership of domestic rabbits and guinea pigs. Obviously, they are not the sole cause of it.
     
  6. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member

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    Then you should have worded the intention of your message more clearly. However, I doubt that the absence of rabbits and guinea pigs from zoos would improve the situation; there are a lot more pet shops than zoos.
     
  7. Cassidy Casuar

    Cassidy Casuar Well-Known Member

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    English technically isn't my first language. Could you please tell me how would you have said it?
     
  8. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member

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    You already did it yourself:
    Nevertheless, I don't agree with your suggestion that banning both species from zoos would solve the problem of inadequate private husbandry.
     
  9. Cassidy Casuar

    Cassidy Casuar Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say that banning them from zoos would solve the problem. It would help to lessen the problem, however.
     
  10. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member

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    Even that I somehow doubt...
     
  11. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member

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    The sources you read and heard this information from would count as proof..

    ~Thylo
     
  12. Cassidy Casuar

    Cassidy Casuar Well-Known Member

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    How would one acquire 'proof' of how widely mistreated domestic rabbits and guinea pigs are? Asking a lot of current and former owners how their animal(s) died is not practical. Even if it was attempted, many people would say that their animal(s) died 'suddenly and unexpectedly' before reaching old age, which is not helpful at all.
     
  13. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member

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    You said you've read enough about rabbits/guineapigs to know that people seeing them in zoos encourage them to buy them as pets. If you read it somewhere, that would mean there's a resource you can cite that would act as proof of your claims.

    ~Thylo
     
  14. Cassidy Casuar

    Cassidy Casuar Well-Known Member

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    I apologise for the misunderstanding. I meant that I've read and heard plenty of anecdotes to support my belief that pet rabbits and guinea pigs are commonly mistreated.
    As I have already attempted to explain, children seeing rabbits and guinea pigs at zoos is a plausible reason for why children would want them as pets. Those pet rabbits and guinea pigs will probably be made to be the children's responsibility, and they will probably lead unhappy lives and die young. That is why I don't like seeing those animals being displayed at zoos. Is that not logical?
    I did not claim that there is a peer-reviewed journal article which concluded that zoos are a major contributing factor to the purchase and subsequent mistreatment of pet rabbits and guinea pigs.
    Personally, I don't think that such research is necessary. It would be difficult to conduct, in any case.
    I would post links which back up my belief that pet rabbits and guinea pigs are commonly mistreated. This is not a domestic animal discussion forum, however, so I don't want to derail the thread any further. The links don't say anything about zoos, anyway.
     
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  15. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member

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    @Cassidy Casuar can I just point out that the reason you are getting a bit of grief over this is because you started out claiming your speculation was absolute fact:

    For example, "Most of these guinea pigs and rabbits meet an early demise" was stated as a factual matter in your first post, and "I can assure you that where I live, the number of these animals that die of old age or an unpreventable and incurable illness is absolutely tiny" was explicitly stated as fact in your next post.

    Only when pressed did you back-track to words such as "believe", "conceivable", "plausible", "probably", and "logical conclusion".

    If you put your position across as supposition or opinion in the first place, rather than trying to claim it as fact, then you wouldn't have to contort to try and back them up when other people understandably want some proof of your "facts". If you "believe" something to be the case then that is fine and people are happy to discuss such things, but if you just claim your personal beliefs are fact then you will get push-back.
     
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  16. TinoPup

    TinoPup Well-Known Member

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    It's a massive stretch. You are assuming that a bunch of people will allow their kids to buy these species just from seeing them in zoos, then assuming responsibility will be placed on the children, then further assuming the kids will take poor care of them. General care for small domestics has come a long way in the last decade. People can now look things up online, talk to others, join facebook groups, etc.
    I'm aware of how some get treated. I've owned rabbits, a close friend rescues them - she is a fire/flight emt and has taken in some that she's come across when in tomes for human patients, along with some from hoarding situations and just about every one that comes into the local city shelter. She's well known in a wide area for being the rabbit person. She doesn't get many calls these days, especially compared to what she used to get decades ago.

    My problem isn't necessarily with your statements that they're treated poorly, but that this could be linked to zoos. There is nothing indicating that seeing an animal in a zoo leads to people buying them, especially with domestics that are constantly on kids' shows, etc. Zoos that do have these species give them proper room, nutrients, and everything else they need. If people are supposedly going to be buying these pets because they saw them in a zoo, why wouldn't they also further learn from the zoo and try to do proper husbandry?
     
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  17. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, this hasn't prevented a lot of bad husbandry - on the contrary. People look for the most convenient solution online. If one source (the more self-assured, the better) tells them that is fine to keep rabbits all alone in a tiny box, they tend to focus on this recommendation, instead of the ones that demand more effort and responsibility from them.
    Unfortunately, quite a bunch of zoos fail to offer their domestic species optimal husbandry conditions according to the modern state of knowledge. That's why I wrote above that zoos should strive to update their domestic animal husbandry to serve as public role models. Cassidy casuar is correct that
    based on what veterinarians see on a daily basis, a lot of pet rabbits and guinea pigs suffer health issues correlated to incorrect husbandry. However, I do not agree with her conclusion that a ban of these two species from zoos would change anything for the better. Following this idea, a lot species (including wild exotics) shouldn't be kept in zoos as well, as they could also attract gullible people to buy them as pets.
     
  18. Ebirah766

    Ebirah766 Well-Known Member

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    Domestic guinea pigs are adorable and easier to keep than the wild ones.
     
  19. Echobeast

    Echobeast Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    As stated earlier, you haven't provided good data or a source to connect domestic rabbits in zoos to an increase in irresponsible rabbit ownership. As a zoo educator and caretaker of domestic rabbits, I think the opposite happens. When I have a rabbit out, I do get a lot of "I want one" statements from young children. Understandable as they are cute. I almost always follow up with explainations on how they are more difficult to take care of than most people think and are a lot of responsibility. Also they make huge messes which usually turns them off from the idea. Rabbits in zoos can be a great tool for responsible pet ownership.

    Plausible? Yes. Likely? I don't think so. As I stated, zoos can be a great resource and are probably the best place to get an idea of what the care of these animals should look like. Pet shop displays should be the real culprit in this matter.
     
  20. TheEthiopianWolf03

    TheEthiopianWolf03 Well-Known Member

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    For me personally, I think I don't really hate a species but I do dislike when a species is put in a massive exhibit when their are many other species that could and should have access to a large exhibit. The domesticated rabbits at Oakland zoo have a fairly large exhibit and around 7 individuals. Most kids skip this exhibit when I visit but maybe its a different story when I'm not at the zoo. The large exhibit mixed with the very tiny rabbits just doesn't sit well with me. If you saw this exhibit you would think with some changes and tweaking it could be a fairly good red panda exhibit or even a medium sized penguin exhibit (Although the latter is probably not doable since the exhibit is on a hillside) Another exhibit at Oakland that is particularly annoying is the camel one. There are loads of ungulates that need new exhibits in AZA zoos to help grow their captive population and yet the zoo expands a already decently sized camel exhibit? And only houses 4 camels? Yes it is on a hillside also but they still have tons of space. Space that could be used by an ibex species or something similar. To me, both examples don't offer any conservation value and at the very most they educate on abandoning pets for rabbits and just typical facts about dromedary camels, the first one which could be taught at an animal rescue center.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't hate either animal for being at the zoo. But what bugs me is that not only they are prioritized over possibly more endangered and rare species, but also species that currently live at the zoo and don't have the best exhibits such as the chimpanzees. Hopefully I don't sound like I'm hating particularly on one or the other species.

    Until then,
    TheEthiopianWolf