Zoo Chleby Zoo Chleby news

I am torn about the import. On one side, young captive-bred doucs from legal source are nice addition to european zoos, and with good research and combined experience from Dusit and Cologne, it might succeed. On the other hand, Chleby is not the right choice for such sensitive species.

 

Correct. Even such famous Zoos like San Diego, Berlin, Frankurt, Philadelphia-all with a long-time-experience in keeping sensitive primate species, failed in keeping Doucs-and Proboscis monkeys.But Experience isn't all Zoos need to keep Doucs alive. So where are all the Doucs in Cologne ? They bred them succesfully, also San Diego, but where are all these animals ? By the way-much more Doucs died at these places than young were born and raised. It is that what some poeple would call a"Success"? After all Docus at Frankfurt Zoo, who has bred them also very"sucessfully"several times,were gone( a lot! ) they said"Never again we will TRY to keep them".My respect, they kept their word until today.

But as as long as Doucs are available, why not try it again-so long-until it its works-I'm sure, someday t will works,see Singapur. But even there many Doucs has died in the past before their time.

 

From ZOO CHLEBY:

Hi!

we are very glad that most of you are supporting us and also do not believe, we would import illegally grey-shanked langurs. We are going to import red-shanked of course, but there was probably a wrong translation made by czech media servis.

Douc Langur Foundation and International Primat Protection Leagus (and perhaps others) who are spreading messages like "stop this murder" did not check information with anyone else (inc. us or Thailand).

 

Thanks for posting here. How do you respond to the criticism that many western zoos have previously tried and failed with red-shanked doucs? Is this not a species better suited to zoos such as Dusit and Singapore?

 

@Chlidonias or Zoo Chleby: What does the phrase "Zoo Chleby bred many animals like the first zoo in Europe and also worldwide" mean? Does it mean "for the first time"? And if so: What species?

 

It would be unprofessional to claim that the species is endangered due illegal trade -- how that could be since afaik there are none in Europe and only one in the US? In addition of Langurs being hurt by deforestation and local hunting, in this case by far the most important factor is legacy of the Vietnam war. It is easy, but myopic to blame zoos like this, while most to blame is the US. This still applies today, as the US foreign policy has devastating impact on wildlife in the middle east -- but most people will pick easy target and attack a small eastern european zoo.

Also note that according to IUCN red-shanked douc is endangered, not critically endangered. Grey-shanked is classified as critically endangered, since it lives only in Vietnam and thus has been more affected by the war. Red-shanked in addition to Vietnam also lives in Cambodia, where the main problem is deforestation.

It can be expected that large zoos will not support this and claim that small zoo cannot take care of such a fragile species, while already failing in case of San Diego and Philly. Obviously the argument has some merit, but I'm afraid that mostly it will originate from envy, as large zoos often feel entitled to some kind of monopoly on rare species.

The positive upside of increasing awareness of the species can be hardly outweighed by any downside that, as of now, can only be speculative.

 

Hi,

Thank you for that question. Of course this is a risky project, but we believe we can push forward the boundaries of knowledge. As we know, we are the first one, who is making chemical tests of the leaves of our trees in Thailand, so we will know, what and how to use.
We also have a big vietnamese community in the Czech Republic and we already discussed with them import of leaves from Vietnam (they are importing some, which were recommended to us by Thais).
We are also learning from mistakes made by others and we cooperate with many experts from other zoos. It is possible we will make some as well, but we believe (Thais believe it too) we can succeed.

Many directors of other zoos are gratulating us, but they are also asking, how our director sleeps – well, it is getting little bit worse, but it is not a good reason for quitting, is it?

 

@Zoo Chleby: Although I'm a bit skeptical, I cross my fingers for your try/experiment/effort (chose the term you prefere). I still wonder if there were any inquiries from your side for cooperation with other European and/or North American Zoos for that? In my opinion, the chance for sustainable keeping and breeding would be higher then because of a greater number of imports (= more individuals to start with), a lower risk that diseases eliminate the entire imports in one hit and shorter distances to exchange the monkeys for breeding.
According to some people in the zoo business, Douc langurs (and Proboscis monkeys) could have been established with a better coordination between the zoos who have kept them. However, find the appropriate (surogate) food is/was maybe the bigger problem.

 

Thanks, it is all of those - try, experiment and an effort,... We of course got all information we could, so we can learn from mistakes that has been made in past. The biggest problem is the right nutrition (leaves), there should not be any problem with diseases etc.

 

Those people from Douc Langur Foundation and International Primate Protection Legaue are insane...
See those public messages on facebook

 

Thanks for the reply. Like zoomaniac, I’m sceptical about the utility of this import and its potential for success, but wish you the very best of luck. They're beautiful animals.

 

I have lost a lot of respect for the Douc Langur Foundation over this issue, with their wild talk of 'murder' and such.
We are talking about a perfectly legal transfer of 3 captive-bred primates from a zoo in Thailand to a zoo in the Czech Republic.
Will Chleby Zoo succeed with this species? We don't yet know, but the zoo is clearly making serious efforts to get the husbandry right. I wish them well and, if my health allows it, I hope to visit Chleby when the doucs have arrived and see them for myself.
(When Leipzig Zoo first brought in Chinese Pangolins, I recall there were some 'enthusiasts' who predicted the animals would be dead within weeks. Let's not be too quick to foretell failure at Chleby.)

 

Thank you MikeG for your support. You are more than welcome, please, let us know, if you will be able to come!
(We will definitely post here an invitation when the arrival will be planned)

 

Thank you very much for your reply. But unfortunately my question is still unanswered. Where there any efforts for a cooperation with other European and/or North American zoos to import this species and for further breeding coordination?

 

Hi Mike. My intention was not to foretell failure and I apologize if that’s how my post came across. However, as both you and ZooChleby have said, none of us know what the outcome of this import will be. That’s true in all cases, of course, but the past lack of success with douc langurs in Europe raises serious welfare issues that I don’t think are outweighed by the “It’s worth a try” mentality.

From my perspective, some ‘enthusiasts’ seem more preoccupied with seeing rare species than considering the animals’ best interests or long-term future. I’m sure that’s not actually true, but I also don’t think new imports are a cause for automatic celebration, especially given the state of many taxa already in European collections. On which note, it seems premature to cite Leipzig’s pangolins as a success when they haven’t yet bred, let alone nucleated a self-sustaining population.

We agree, however, in wishing Chleby all the best and I genuinely hope to be proven wrong.

 

That’s a fair point. I don’t know much about the situation with pangolins, but Leipzig’s achievement is clearly an important milestone (along with perhaps less visible successes, eg. Taipei and Nandankanan).