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ZooChat Cup Group E: Cologne vs Pairi Daiza

Discussion in 'ZooChat Cup' started by CGSwans, 2 Nov 2019.

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Cologne vs Pairi Daiza - birds

Poll closed 4 Nov 2019.
  1. Cologne 3-0 Pairi Daiza

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Cologne 2-1 Pairi Daiza

    46.9%
  3. Pairi Daiza 2-1 Cologne

    46.9%
  4. Pairi Daiza 3-0 Cologne

    6.3%
  1. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Pairi Daiza should have been a Cup contender. Instead it was one of the very first zoos eliminated. It can perhaps restore some dignity against safely-qualified Cologne with birds as the topic, but it’s too late for anything else.
     
  2. TheGerenuk

    TheGerenuk Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    2-1 Pairi Daiza. Cologne has some strengths in birds, but you can't deny the fact that Pairi Daiza has two real draw cards: shoebills and Spix's macaws!
     
  3. birdsandbats

    birdsandbats Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Spix's Macaw makes me vote 2-1 Pairi Daiza for now, could be convinced to vote for Cologne.
     
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  4. Hvedekorn

    Hvedekorn Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    While Cologne may not have the same kind of drawcard species, they do have a pretty damn good bird collection. Their waterfowl collection is possibly the best in the world, and even if it isn't, it must surely be in the top 3.

    I may be mistaken here, but haven't Pairi Daiza reduced their bird collection a lot since the Parc Paradisio days when they were an actual bird park? On the other hand, Cologne Zoo's collection doesn't seem to have decreased. Cologne also has a traditional "pheasantry" - i.e. a long row of aviaries for birds - which is something you rarely see in major zoos these days where aviaries tend to be fewer and more spread-out. That earns them a few more points in my book.
     
  5. birdsandbats

    birdsandbats Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    If this is all true, that's enough for me to change!
     
  6. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    I agree with all of the above; Pairi Daiza undeniably has the bigger oddities, but equally undeniably Koln has the larger and more comprehensive collection and - more importantly - a better overall aviary/enclosure standard in my opinion.... and of course, it doesn't do too badly where oddities are concerned itself!
     
  7. Jogy

    Jogy Well-Known Member

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    I got convinced that Cologne also has a great bird collection - so I changed my vote slightly to 2:1 for Pairi Daiza - however the selection and the quality of the Pairi Daiza Bird collection is really amazing.

    I‘m not a bird expert but beside the spix macaws shoebills they also have several species of birds of paradise of amazing selection of hornbills.

    I can‘t remeber the avaries at Cologne but the ones at Pairi Daiza are among the best I‘ve seen at Zoos.
     
  8. pipaluk

    pipaluk Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I am surprised that Cologne is winning, I have to say, species wise I can't see it winning and having been to Cologne, I'm struggling to remember too many stand out exhibits either, I thought the penguin exhibit was terrible for a major zoo.... Pairi Daiza species list seems far more impressive to me, I was wavering between 3-0 or 2-1 Pairi Daiza!!
     
  9. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    Well, as I noted Pairi does have a fair few more oddities - but in terms of the collection size and how comprehensive it is, Köln does a very good job of overcoming this disparity, with c.270 taxa held in comparison to the c.210 held at Pairi Daiza. Moreover, there are more than a few unusual species within the collection - even if they aren't the showstoppers which lure zoonerds aplenty to Pairi Daiza - particularly where fruit-doves and imperial pigeons are concerned.

    To give an idea of just how good the waterfowl collection at Köln is, according to ZTL they currently hold 110 taxa to the 23 held by Pairi Daiza.
     
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  10. snowleopard

    snowleopard Well-Known Member 15+ year member Premium Member

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    This match appears to be a closely-fought battle!

    I was at Pairi Daiza on July 24th, just 5 days before Cologne, and there are 210 bird species at that fine zoo (numbers courtesy of the ever-reliable @TeaLovingDave ). The Tropical House and the Cambron-Abbey section of the zoo contain species such as Spix’s Macaw, Lear’s Macaw, Bulwer’s Pheasant, St. Lucia Amazon Parrot, St. Vincent Parrot and Andean Cock-of-the-Rock amidst a number of other types. Nearby are some spacious bird-of-prey aviaries with a large assortment of species, including rarities (from the perspective of a Canadian zoo nerd) such as Long-crested Eagle, African Fish Eagle, Booted Eagle, Lanner Falcon, African Harrier Hawk and Bearded Vulture. Penguins have a large sandy beach, the Australian walk-through aviary is decent, there are at least 20 bird species in the Tropical House in the Middle Kingdom section of the zoo, plus Shoebill Storks and Openbill Storks in the African zone.

    I was at Cologne Zoo on July 29th and there are many ponds with an abundance of waterfowl...perhaps too many from the perspective of someone who is notable on ZooChat for preferring mammals over birds. There are a series of small lakes in the center of the zoo that are scenic and probably adored by those zoo nerds that wish to seek out their feathered friends. Cologne has half-a-dozen bird species flying around in the Hippo/Croc House, at least 20 bird species in the Tropical House, and there are a lot of bird exhibits along the upper left-hand side of the grounds (if looking at the zoo's map). Here can be found a vast array of birds in mesh aviaries, with a section of "ruins" that is rather remarkable and seemingly tucked away into a corner. Western Capercaillie, Bush Thick-knee, Boat-billed Heron and Western Long-tailed Hornbill are just 4 of a plentiful number of species in that part of the zoo, with a poor penguin exhibit elsewhere. Apparently Cologne has 270 bird species and that is a considerable amount for any zoological facility.

    This is a tough decision because Cologne has more species, but Pairi Daiza has more rarities and in arguably slightly better exhibits. I'm going with a scoreline of 2-1 Pairi Daiza.



     
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  11. Shorts

    Shorts Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Pairi Diaza's bird show is also pretty impressive too (multiple vulture species inc Andean Condors), whilst I can't remember seeing one at Cologne.
     
  12. Hvedekorn

    Hvedekorn Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I haven't visited Pairi Daiza, but what I gather from some of these posts is that Cologne may be better for clear-cut bird nerds, while PD is probably better at attracting the attention of those who have a more casual interest in the feathered fiends. :p

    But... I'm one of the former, and my favorite group of birds is waterfowl, so I don't think I can be tempted to the join the Pairi Daiza side. I concur that PD is no slouch when it comes to birds either, so Cologne can't get a landslide victory - thus the 2-1 vote from me.
     
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  13. vogelcommando

    vogelcommando Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Finaly a duell between zoos I've visited both ( and worked at one of them :) ).
    Pairi Daiza started as a Birdpark and is IMO still a very good place if you want to see a lot of birds and esp. if you want to see real rarities !
    Birds of Paradise, birds of prey, wading birds ( esp. cranes storks and of course the shoebills ) and parrots are a very strong point at Pairi Daiza.
    Cologne has a large waterfowl-collection but for me and a large part of the general public waterfowl is not the most important reason to visit a zoo, leaving only the beautifull pigeon and dove-collection at Cologne noteworth ( yes, of course there are more small highlights ).
    Overall its for me a clear win for Pairi Daiza and I gave it a 3.0 score.
     
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  14. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    That is a very pessimistic view of the bird collection in Cologne which has a very large number of rarities including Little bustard, Western crowned hornbill, Golden-bellied leafbird, Blue coua, multiple Bird of Paradise species, Channell-billed cuckoo, real Budgerigars, Fire-tufted barbet, Green oropendola, Brahminy kite, Milky stork and Western Long-tailed hornbill. You cannot ignore what is probably the most significant public waterfowl collection on the European mainland. It is a pity for us zoonerds that the real rare Doves and Birds-of-Paradise are behind the scenes. But the on-show bird collection is one of the best in Europe in maybe not very noteworthy, but consistently well-planted and not too small aviaries.

    Pairi Daiza has some of the better and more impressive enclosures like the Free-flight aviary and some of the Bird of prey aviaries as well as the main Shoebill enclosure. The worst bird enclosures would also be found in Pairi Daiza, with some underwhelming owl aviaries and a for the penguins very bad enclosure. Overall Pairi Daiza has a typical bird collection with stuff that impresses, whereas Cologne has a much better all-round collection and good breeding results with many species (whereas Pairi Daiza has invested more in getting rare birds in recent years then in breeding what they have).

    I initially voted 2-1 Pairi Daiza, but changing that to 2-1 Cologne now.
     
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  15. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    This, I feel, is the key point. Much as was the case with the recent Wroclaw/Berlin match, this tie is one where one really cannot justify a clean sweep for either collection - and I feel that the three individuals who have voted 3-0 for Pairi have done so unfairly.

    That said, some of the dove oddities are onshow!
     
  16. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    It's also worth noting that the aviaries for the Lears and Spix's Macaws - which is almost certainly the sole reason some people are voting the way they are :p - are really not that great either in terms of animal welfare or viewing by the public, given the fact that they are:

    a) Located in the noisiest part of the zoo, next to the main entrance and positioned such that it is all-but-certain every single person entering the zoo will walk past them.
    b) Also located next to two gift shops and a domestic animal petting area, which will amplify the noise disturbance caused by the first factor.
    c) Clad in a combination of highly-reflective glass and dense green mesh, both of which make viewing and photography tricky - especially when one considers that the inhabitants of the aviaries tend to spend the vast majority of their time at the very top of the aviary, perhaps due to the aforementioned noise disturbance.

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. pipaluk

    pipaluk Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Criticism of this aviary may well be justified, but as I said before, I can't really remember any stand out aviaries at Cologne and most could be described as basic or functional.
     
  18. Jogy

    Jogy Well-Known Member

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    I'm still struggeling with this challenge - I clearly see PD stronger here (without waterfowl PD has not only the rarer but also the bigger collection) - but the question for me is to what margin.

    I've just spent the last 3 days at PD and yet again was impressed by the nice collection and the (mostly) really great enclosures.

    I agree that some rare birds, e.g. the spix marcaw are difficult to take pictures from - but the fact that they have the possibility to hide is at least from an animal care perspective no downside for me. (Saturday I actually saw all 4 spix marcaw at once)

    Regarding the argument that PD is not focussed on breeding rare birds - they are just finalizing their 3m€ investment for a rare bird breeding center which is expected to open in the next weeks.

    Anyhow - I've changed my vote back to 2:1 for PD.
     
  19. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    I'm currently running through the gallery to see what I can do with regards to that shortfall :)

    Well, firstly the margin is not all that big even if one disregards waterfowl, at 169 (Koln) to 187 (Pairi)....secondly and more importantly, it's a little disingenuous to disregard a whole sector of the collection like that ;) it's akin to saying that "if you ignore parrots Koln has more rarities, so therefore that is the better collection overall".

    Well, it isn't so much the fact they have the possibility to hide and more the fact that they are rather forced to do so ;)

    Which gets us onto the thorny subject (which has gone back and forth in past ties) of whether future plans are admissible :p although I sincerely doubt the complex is only a few weeks from completion.
     
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  20. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    I'd argue there are at least three stand-out sections of the bird collection; unfortunately there are few photographs of the first, a walkthrough aviary next to the Regenwaldhaus, but there are a decent number of images of the other two areas of note.

    Walkthrough Aviary (Outside Regenwaldhaus)

    As noted, there are few images of this aviary and almost all are of the inhabitants rather than the aviary itself - I'd upload some more myself, but I'm currently away from home. The only image I can find is the following, which only shows a portion of the whole:

    [​IMG]

    Nonetheless, this aviary is large, lushly-vegetated and contains a large number of rather nice species, including one big oddity:

    King Vulture (Sarcoramphus papa)
    Milky Stork (Mycteria cinerea)
    Asian Woolly-necked Stork (Ciconia episcopus episcopus)
    White-winged Wood Duck (Asarcornis scutulata)
    Cochin-Chinese Red Junglefowl (Gallus gallus gallus)
    Satyr Tragopan (Tragopan satyra)

    Waterfowl Complex

    There are a large number of rather nice waterfowl exhibits scattered throughout the zoo - most notably within the Hippo House, and within many of the moats/canals across the site - but a large portion of the waterfowl collection is located within a complex of large and pleasant exhibits close to the centre of the zoo:

    Capture.JPG

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    Owl Monastery

    One of the other particular highlights of the bird collection, in my opinion, is this peaceful little corner converted from old zoo structures - someone more informed than I will probably know what this area once contained - to resemble the overgrown and thickly-vegetated ruins of an abandoned monastery which have subsequently been inhabited by a selection of owls and other birds, mostly European in origin. The main body of this area comprises a walkthrough exhibit, with a pair of smaller aviaries at either end.

    The species held within this area are as follows:

    Western European Barn Owl (Tyto alba alba)
    Black Stork (Ciconia nigra)
    Northern Bald Ibis (Geronticus eremita)
    Red-billed Bluepie (Urocissa erythroryncha)
    Eurasian Great Grey Owl (Strix nebulosa lapponica)
    Eurasian Long-eared Owl (Asio otus otus)
    Spectacled Owl (Pulsatrix perspicillata)
    European Kestrel (Falco tinnunculus tinnunculus)

    [​IMG]

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