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ZooChat Cup Group E: Cologne vs Pairi Daiza

Discussion in 'ZooChat Cup' started by CGSwans, 2 Nov 2019.

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Cologne vs Pairi Daiza - birds

Poll closed 4 Nov 2019.
  1. Cologne 3-0 Pairi Daiza

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Cologne 2-1 Pairi Daiza

    46.9%
  3. Pairi Daiza 2-1 Cologne

    46.9%
  4. Pairi Daiza 3-0 Cologne

    6.3%
  1. Hvedekorn

    Hvedekorn Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    [​IMG]

    Here's one more photo of the Cologne walkthrough aviary if that's any help (I don't think I uploaded this one).

    On the photo in @TeaLovingDave's post, I was standing in the far end of the aviary, and the storks are perched on the entrance to the rainforest house, so it shows the entire length of the aviary, although not the entire width.
     
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  2. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    Excellent - you had indeed omitted that one, and it shows the scale and quality a bit better!
     
  3. pipaluk

    pipaluk Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I will concede that the walk through aviary is reasonably good, the waterfowl areas too. I'm not so sure about the monastery though, different, but personally I didn't think that much of it.
    I would put this forward as a reason NOT to vote for Cologne, I would say this looks better in the photo than it is in reality!
    20180305_151906.jpg
     
  4. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    It is however far better for the penguins then the one in Pairi Daiza (and much larger than the photo shows). The Penguin enclosure in Pairi Daiza is horrible from a visitors perspective, as well as from the penguin perspective as the Penguins are afraid of both people and seals, both of which they share their enclosure with. Recently PD has cornered of a puddle for the Penguins to swim in, but that cannot be called sufficient in any way either.
     
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  5. pipaluk

    pipaluk Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    The memory of Cologne's penguin enclosure was the first thing that came to mind in this tie and far outweighed that of a half decent walk through and the waterfowl lakes, which are held up as stand out exhibits for Cologne. This may only show part of the enclosure, but its not just the size that I think makes it awful, I don't think I've seen many uglier than this in the UK (older birdworld one, Twycross, Birdland maybe), but I don't think I've seen one this awful in a major zoo
     
  6. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    I'd be inclined to suggest that pointing to the quality of the penguin exhibit at Cologne as a reason why it does not deserve to be voted for is more than a little unfair considering the fact that Pairi has multiple exhibits which are equally bad - or indeed worse. @lintworm has already cited the equivalent penguin exhibit, but perhaps it would be a good time to point out how small and inadequate some of the owl exhibits are (especially compared to the aforementioned Owl Monastery at Cologne).

    This is a mixed aviary for Tawny Owl and Malayan Wood Owl - not only is it small and shabby, but the two species should probably not be mixed at all!

    [​IMG]

    And this is a tiny aviary for European Barn Owl:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. pipaluk

    pipaluk Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    A lot of Cologne's aviaries are pretty similar to the first one!
     
  8. Hvedekorn

    Hvedekorn Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Furnishing-wise, maybe, but unless that aviary is bigger than the photo makes it look, all of Cologne's aviaries easily beat it in size. Cologne doesn't have any aviaries that are smaller than this one (a typical example of their pheasantry aviaries):

    [​IMG]
     
  9. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    As noted above, the Pairi aviary *is* pretty small - and is a lot more dishevelled and unkempt than any of the Cologne ones.

    A few other good examples of the size and condition of aviaries at Cologne:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It's a bit of a stretch to say any of these are "pretty similar" to that mixed owl aviary.
     
  10. pipaluk

    pipaluk Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I don't think this is a 'typical example' necessarily, I remember several being more like the one in TLD's post of the PD one! I think it unlikely you will find many photos in the gallery of Cologne's poorer aviaries, probably because people wouldn't want to show Cologne in a bad light, but a lot of members don't like PD and would jump at the chance to post a photo of a bad enclosure from there.
    It's not that I dislike Cologne overall, but it wouldn't be a place I'd go to for its birds. I voted for it in other categories in the past!
     
  11. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    On another note, we've heard from @vogelcommando as regards his reasoning for giving Pairi a clean sweep - even if I think it is somewhat unfair - but how about @Elephantelephant ? :)
     
  12. Hvedekorn

    Hvedekorn Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    It wasn't a photo I found in the gallery - it was my own photo that I hadn't uploaded before. I have pictures of every single aviary in Cologne, and that was the smallest aviary among them. When did you visit? I visited in 2018, so maybe they have merged some small aviaries into bigger ones between the dates of our respective visits? The cul-de-sac aviaries seemed slightly older than the ones at the main pathway so they could have given them a small makeover.

    I think it's perfectly valid to vote for Pairi Daiza on the basis that they have more mega-aviaries than Cologne, but I do feel like Cologne has a more consistent quality when it comes to the smaller aviaries. Just like I might've voted Pairi Daiza if I preferred parrots over waterfowl.
     
  13. pipaluk

    pipaluk Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I visited in July 2018. Poll has closed, narrow win for PD, which personally I think is about right ( other opinions are obviously welcome!). Even if the only 3-0 votes were 2-1, the outcome would have been the same. Incidentally, all my banter with 2 moderators changed absolutely nothing, so fair fight boys!?
     
    Last edited: 4 Nov 2019
  14. vogelcommando

    vogelcommando Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Have to say 2 things about this :
    As I said, Cologne of course has its highlights but maybe because I'm a little spoiled with rare / unussual species like Golden-fronted leafbird ( not Golden-bellied ;) ) which I've taken care for at Walsrode and at a privat collection and which were offered even in smaller pet-shops during the 1970s / 1980s for a price of Fl. 45 ( would be now 22,50 Euro ), Milky storks, Green oropendola , Long-tailed hornbill ( all three Walsrode mid-1980s ), Crowned hornbill ( taken care for at both Walsrode and Pairi Daiza mid-1980s and mid-1990s ) and Fire-tufted barbet ( Gettorf beginning 1990s ) are surtainly very intresting and now-a-days very rare birds but for me not That "special" which would leave for me the Little bustard, Blue coua and the Channel-billed cuckoo as being highlights for me.
    Secondly its already sometime ago when I visited Cologne and at that time ( mid-2000s ) I wasn't impresed by the bird-collection at Cologne ( sorry ) so my vote will not change.
     
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  15. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    Yep, as I said it was always going to be a close one :) although I stand by my statement that neither 3-0 vote was exactly fair.

    It would be too late for you to change your vote anyway ;) although I have to say that given the fact you also worked with Spix's Macaw, St Lucia Amazon, St Vincent Amazon, Lesser Bird-of-Paradise, Greater Bird-of-Paradise, Greater Bird-of-Paradise and Shoebill at Walsrode - in other words, all but one of the major bird rarities at Pairi Daiza - and have previously gone on-the-record as having thought the BoP and parrot species weren't particularly interesting and thus never bothered to take photographs of them - your logic regarding why the oddities at Cologne aren't special is a little bit of a double-standard!
     
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  16. HOMIN96

    HOMIN96 Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I totally loved these during my visit!
     
  17. Elephantelephant

    Elephantelephant Well-Known Member

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    I really like Pairi Daiza. Although it is a young zoo, it flourishes at a rapid pace. Cologne Zoo has a great disadvantage because it is surrounded by the city and therefore can not grow. One of Cologne's best houses is probably an elephant house, which is better than in Pairi Daiza. Pairi Daiza has, but more spacious elephant exhibit. I just like Pairi Daiza a lot and it is my favorite zoo. Even good zoos like Cologne are not so amazing (in my opinion). Of course, it also has some mistakes: White Tigers and Javan leopards could have better conditions. Still, Pairi Daiza is the best zoo for me.
     
  18. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    You are aware that this match focuses solely on birds and last time I checked Elephants did not have feathers.

    @vogelcommando , it is a bit unfair to judge a zoo by their enclosures in the mid 2000s. Cologne does keep Golden-bellied leafbirds, they arrived last year and are on show in the rainforest house.
     
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  19. Hvedekorn

    Hvedekorn Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I haven't seen many white tigers and Javan leopards with beaks and wings either. @Elephantelephant, if you genuinely didn't know, in this contest you're supposed to vote for the zoo you think is best when it comes to a specific group of animals (in this case birds). Not the zoo you think is the best overall.
     
  20. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    Orange-bellied?

    Yes, mornings are generally not the part of the day when I am most bright...