And the category is... large carnivores! Not exactly Beauval's strongest suit, this one. ZooChat Cup In summary, the rules of the game are as follows: - You may choose whatever criteria you like to decide how to vote, as long as it only relates to the category above. - You can use whatever resources you like to inform your vote, including Zoolex, Zootierliste, the ZooChat gallery, trip reviews, zoo maps, books and wherever else. You don't have to have visited both zoos to vote. - Votes are public and can be changed at any time before the poll closes. - The aim of the game is to provoke debate. Post explaining why you voted the way you did, and why others should join you. - Voting closes in four days - The one thing you can't do is vote based on anything other than the relevant category. Tomorrow: Basel vs Plzen
Admittedly haven’t seen much on either zoo, but based off of what I HAVE seen, Beauval wins for me....for now. I would like to hear a counter argument though, happy to be convinced otherwise Lisbon DOES have Iberian lynx....
I'm leaning Beauval, with its high quality recent exhibits for blob bears and snow leopards, and very new, if somewhat anti-septic, exhibit for lions. The wolves and hyenas have pleasantly wooded, if modestly sized yards. It's nowhere near definitive, though. Lisbon isn't a *pretty* zoo, on the whole, but its tiger complex is superior to Beauval's, it has a big, complex brown bear exhibit that at the time of my visit had no fewer than five bears, and the Iberian lynx as mentioned by Jake. And, while this might be quixotic, the chair lift as Lisbon goes close enough to the lions (or maybe even directly over it?) makes for a delightful sense of unease that it would be a bad place to take a tumble.
Plzen's obviously one of the favourites to win the Cup overall, but it's not without its weaknesses. If the category is ectotherms I'd think Basel should fancy its chances, for instance. If it does get through it plays the winner of this match between Beauval and Lisbon, both of which are eminently capable of taking Plzen on in primates. And then in the third round the possible rivals are Twycross and Wuppertal: primates could again bring Plzen unstuck despite it being a big strength.
If it is primates Plzen is out with the highly inferior chimpanzee enclosure, Madagascar house and South-American house.
I never said Plzen would be the winner, but I do know it has its fans on the forum (it’s in the top 8 seed after all) so I was just merely stating I am looking forward to the round it would be interesting if Plzen was knocked out in the prelims after all, right?
Both: Indochinese clouded leopard; tigers (including Sumatran); northern raccoon; Nepalese red panda Beauval European brown bear; giant panda Fishing cat; snow leopard; jaguar; lion (including Southeast African); North Persian leopard; puma; tiger California sea lion Spotted hyena Asian small-clawed otter Lisbon Siberian tiger; southwest African lion; northern lynx; Iberian lynx*; South African cheetah Brown bear (including Syrian) Beauval wins this one as Lisbon has fewer species of large carnivores and there are only two families represented. I'm surprised that there were no dogs. Lisbon has the only species I haven't seen before: the Iberian lynx. It's a shame it didn't have other unusual large carnivores.
Are Raccoon , Red Panda , Fishing Cat ,Asian small clawed otter Large carnivores? I haven’t been counting these for other matches . I think it's a grey area, just like whether small ungulates or primates should be counted as small mammals. Perhaps for later rounds a clear division could be made? A primate is a primate etc. ..
Hello Pipaluk. I wasn't sure about them, either. The two species I discounted as small carnivores were the meerkat and the dwarf mongoose.
The problem of Lisbon is that they have to many species on a little area. They have medium sized tiger enclosures, but each holds a (breeding) pair, one siberian, one sumatran and one for generic white tigers. This means that when there are cubs (like recently with the Siberian ones), the male spends all time indoors.... The same goes for the spotted cats where they have cages for Persian leopard, Jaguar (or generic black panther??), Clouded leopard, lynx (and ocelot) in one complex, which would be much more suitable for 2 species only. Their bear and lion enclosures are also ancient and though not very small, very boring and ugly. Only the Iberian lynx have a very nice enclosure (which was thus also the only species in the zoo I did not see....). I am aware the Beauval has quite some inferior large carnivore enclosures as well and they might get punished for that in a later stage, but Lisbon is not match....
I've gone for Beauval as it has better enclosures (generally) and a better selection. If Lisbon had enclosures that also matched their lynx exhibit then it would have been a lot closer.
I've said before that I won't be drawing a hard and fast line where carnivores get 'large' enough to count. But if I *were* to draw a hard and fast line, those species would fall outside it. Species that I would say are unambiguously within scope are all bear species, all pinniped species, all pantherine cat species, as well as pumas and clouded leopards, hyenas and the larger canids such as maned wolves, wolves and African hunting dogs. I'm happy to defer to feedback about the blurred categorisation, but it shouldn't be too confusing if you are comfortable with the idea that some species simply fit within both: it's perfectly acceptable to consider mouse deer for ungulates *and* for small mammals, for instance.
Beauval has a fantastic Spotted Hyena exhibit, and the Giant Pandas are kept in a complex that is one part impressive, one part kitsch. I’ve not seen the new Lion thing, but the rest of the big cats are in fairly basic accommodation- fine, but basic. If the Brown Bear is still in the same cage as was the case 5 or 6 years ago - not good. And a great Californian Sealion show (French zoos do seem to like a spectacular show). I think it would be hard for any zoo to better this - and I don’t think Lisbon is able to do so.
Ok, that's fair enough , as I said before I wouldn't include the 4 species listed either . I think the line has to be drawn probably at Lynx, it's just which side of the line they fall for people ! Other difficult ones would be .Giant otter or Wolverine maybe .
