And the category is... primates. I wish Valencia luck, because it's going to need it. The concept behind this poll is explained here: ZooChat Cup In summary, the rules of the game are as follows: - You may choose whatever criteria you like to decide how to vote, as long as it only relates to the category above. - You can use whatever resources you like to inform your vote, including Zoolex, Zootierliste, the ZooChat gallery, trip reviews, zoo maps, books and wherever else. You don't have to have visited both zoos to vote. - Votes are public and can be changed at any time before the poll closes. - The aim of the game is to provoke debate. Post explaining why you voted the way you did, and why others should join you. - The one thing you can't do is vote based on anything other than the relevant category. - Voting closes in seven days.
Valencia has most likely from a visitors standpoint, one of the most impressive displays for great apes and drills. The drill enclosure (they are socialized with anything from a pygmy hippo to Nile geese, western sitatunga and northern talapoin and pelicans) is absolutely stunning. Now.... for gorillas and chimpazees, both enclosures in Valencia are spacious but almost with no shade other than the entrance area for indoor eclosures. I understand, why zoos design their primate enclosures like that (same is valid for most orang utans enclosures I have seen so far) it is the best form of display for visitors. But it is the exact opposite of what those three great apes have in their natural habitat. These greenish, open, sunny enclosures are the reason most great apes do not voluntarily leave their shady indoors of any other shady place outside unless there is some feeding done. They are arboral/forest-ish animals. I have - unfortunately not been to Chester yet, but from the pictures and reports I have read, I consider the orang utan enclosure in Chester - as dark as it is and as hard to spot as the apes are - to be one of the real appropriate ones for those animals. I am a single issue voter on this enclosure for great apes situation and for that reason my vote goes to Chester.
Both: Ring-tailed lemur; western common chimpanzee Chester: Alaotran gentle lemur; lion-tailed macaque; white-faced saki; Bornean and Sumatran orang-utans; eastern pygmy marmoset; aye-aye; yellow-breasted capuchin; golden-headed lion tamarin; black lemur; Colombian black spider monkey; cotton-top and pied tamarins; common chimpanzee; black-and-gold howler monkey; moloch and lar gibbons; mandrill Valencia: De Brazza's monkey; drill; mongoose, red-bellied and red-fronted lemurs; northern talapoin; red and black-and-white ruffed lemurs; white-naped mangabey An easy win for Chester
Though here the contest is pretty uneven on many counts, I am wondering why you always just seem to take into consideration the size of the collection?
Hello Lintworm. I use ZTL to get an idea of collections, especially as I haven't visited some of the collections listed. I also look at the types of species kept. I would choose a collection with fewer species but a more interesting collection over one with a large collection of species kept in many zoos. This was not the case in Chester v Valencia, although I may have chosen Mulhouse over Chester in terms of their primate collections. Paris Menagerie v Budapest was more difficult. I have been to both zoos and they show many similarities, so I compared 'quality' and 'quantity' in this case.
...though some might argue that 'quality' relates to how a zoo cares for and presents the species it has, rather than how exotic they are.
Finally a zoo I’ve been to! I really liked the Lemur walkthrough at Valencia but I was fairly unimpressed by most of the primate exhibits. The Drill enclosure was quite nice but as others have pointed out, the Gorilla and Chimp exhibits are just an open field. Judging from pics of Chester’s exhibits and collection, I’m voted for the zoo in the UK.
I agree. I've visited zoos with people who aren't zoo nerds and I've noticed animals in very distressing enclosures. That is why I put the word 'quality' in inverted commas. I suppose it's only valid to compare 'quality' if you visit zoos close together, as several Zoochatters have done. It is more difficult to do so if you haven't visited one or both of the zoos concerned.
If you aren't comparing zoos by their quality, what relevant aspects are there really left to compare them by? What your proposing imho is similar to comparing two dishes by the number of their ingredients.
That's is why I'm finding it difficult to vote. On the one hand a cheeseburger beats a hamburger because of one extra ingredient but a bog-standard cheeseburger doesn't beat a gastro-burger on a brioche bun.
Are you suggesting that the only people who are entitled to vote are people who've been to both zoos? If so, is there a time limit to when they made their visits as some zoos have changed rapidly over the years?
No he isn't, there is also the huge Zoochat gallery that gives a pretty good general impression, so you now whether you are at Mcdonalds or at a proper burger restaurant, for the exact taste, you still have to visit though...
I’m definitely one who needs to taste the burger . . . as yet, no match has involved two zoos that I have visited, so I’m reserving my votes until that does happen.
Ahem. Need I remind everybody that the zoos in question are Chester and Valencia? Burgers is later in the draw.
The difference though is that the pictures of burgers on burgerschat are not posted by the sellers but by the consumers, so there is usually less photoshop in place
Message received and understood. Valencia loses on account of the dreadful chimp enclosure if nothing else.
At risk of sounding deliberately contrary: Valencia’s lemur walk-through is lovely, and the Drill - Talapoin - other things exhibit is wonderful. The two great ape exhibits look very nice (even if those whose opinions I trust point to significant flaws). At Chester, the Monkey House exhibits are clearly very good for their residents, but the viewing they provide is not fantastic. The same is true of the lemur islands. Chimps: great outside, fairly poor in the “oast house”. Realm of the Red Ape: deeply unsatisfactory, from a viewing perspective. Islands: yes, good for gibbons, macaques, and orangs, but the whole area is such a horrible piece of faux ethnography that I can’t escape from that. So, Valencia for me.... (Although I’m not sure I’ve quite managed to persuade myself, let alone anyone else).
Sorry, there was no message, just a joke. Please continue the debate - tortured metaphor aside it's exactly what I was hoping to provoke.
